Seatbelt Question

[m11stephen2]

Why do all the inverted coasters at sfgam have seatbelts?

[ragingbullchick]

Because if you were ever to get "stuck" on an inversion, you'd fall out if there was nothing holding you in. When you are on the coaster, gravity holds you in on the inversions. But if you would stop on one, the force would pull you away from the seat instead of towards it. I think this is why, but I'm not too sure... I learned it in science quite a few years ago...

[CoastsToCoasters]

Think about getting stuck on deja vus tower. The lap belt holds your hips/legs against the seat. In the rare case that the restraint opens, the seatbelt attached to the harness holds it shut.

[SFGA Bob]

yeah, its basically just a backup for the locking restraint. if the lock fails, the seatbelt is the failsafe.

[haydawg149]

^ EXACTLY

[Shockwavegirl]

I would feel a whole lot better if Superman had one of those seatbelts. Although I have seen the lock on those restraints and am pretty confident it's not going to release, I like that seatbelt to reassure me.

[twixmix0303]

Superman has redundant onboard safety systems (including the protruding pin at the ends of the armrests) that even if one restraining system completely failed, the other one would be completely capable of holding you in. There are so many sensors on these rides nowadays it is impossible for me to trust them less than 100%.

[CoasterFreak57]

true

But whenever my harness is just an inch too loose on Vu, i am glad there is that seatbelt there

[FParker185]

If you meant the crotch seatbelt, it prevents people from submarineing under the OTSR, like what happened on PGA Drop Zone.

[twixmix0303]

Batman also has that very large "crotch block" between the legs. My first time riding I didn't see it when I was getting off, I said "ouch". Hope you get the point.

[pennyroyalest]

I find it comforting.

[Shockwavegirl]

Superman has redundant onboard safety systems (including the protruding pin at the ends of the armrests) that even if one restraining system completely failed, the other one would be completely capable of holding you in. There are so many sensors on these rides nowadays it is impossible for me to trust them less than 100%.

Yeah, but take it from a former employee of a roller coaster.......the sensors don't always work. Take for instance roller coasters have proxy switches, which are sensors prohibiting trains from entering the same block of track at the same time. For example, Shockwave had 3 blocks, the lift, the section of track with the three loops before the brake block, and the remainder of the ride, if there was a train on the lift, the proxy switches would prevent an operator to send another train until the train left the lift, and same goes for the rest of the ride, if a train gets stopped on the block brakes, the lift would also stop, preventing a collision if the train had left the lift. But very often roller coasters would get a trouble light, which would automatically stop the ride based on a "ghost" train. For some reason the proxy switches sensed a train was entering the same block, when there wasn't a train at all. Thus leaving passengers stranded for no reason, making ops like me who are TERRIFIED of heights climb the lift and reassure passengers, until maitenance resets the ride. Same thing happens with just about every sensor on the ride. Computers are not perfect.
As far as Superman goes, I am quite certain that the harness will not release.......but the irrational side me says every time I go up that lift....."If this harness were to release.....I'm a dead woman!"

[SFGA Bob]

umm...Shockwave had more than 3 blocks. if there were only 3, the trains would never move anywhere since there needs to be at least 1 more block then there are trains. and actual blocks are often more complicated than just "the station" or whatever. for instance, MF has several blocks in the loading station which allows the train in the unloading station to move into the loading station before the train in the loading station has fully left.

no, computers aren't perfect, but if an accident occurs, its probably going to be the rider's fault.

[RagingBullFan]

Gemini can do 3 train operation with only 3 blocks so it is possible, but Shockwave has a longer brake run than Gemini. Arrow Dynamics has a weird way of saying the Station is not a block, but then overlaps the other blocks.

On Gemini the blocks were as follows...

A Block - Front of Station to Crest of Lift
B Block - Crest of lift to End of C-Block Brakes
C Block - Start of C-Block Brakes to End of Station ( Back platform).

On Shockwave there were more Ready/Trim Safety brakes behind the station than there is on Gemini which could allow 3 trains to be parked without causing a setup. On Gemini with 3 trains, stacking them would cause one train to stop out at C-Brake due to the lack of a long brake run.

The main reason why seatbelts are being ADDED to rides that did not have them before is for liability issues. Take Corkscrew at CP for example, it had operated for well over 20 years without seatbelts and never had a problem. Then CP decided to modify the restraints to keep the harnesses up in the air when unlocked ( Via manual footpedal still). When this change occured, during the testing of the new system failures were noted, causing the installation of seatbelts as a backup safety device.

In terms of "Ghost" trains those are always fun, on Gemini there were no Proxy switches as they are too new for the ride, instead there are 13 sets of photoeyes combined with what is called limit switches ( think a paperclip that a little flap on the train flicks). Every day at 8 pm we would have a discrepancy occur because the angle of the sun was just right to trigger the photoeye on the C-Block brakes causing the ride to think there was a train there. Then when the real train entered the c-block brakes the ride hasn't cleared the c-block because nothing had triggered the "Clear C-Block limit switches", this would then cause the train to setup at C-Brake and then I got to take a fun run out to the base of C then go up about 60 feet to talk to people.

And while computer's aren't perfect, B&M's are, there have not been any deaths on a B&M due to a control failure. Like was said, it is usually either their own fault, or it was a lazy operator.

[twixmix0303]

Does Gemini have a dual station? (A dual station would be counted as two blocks.) Anyways, shockwavegirl mentioned about trouble lights and how the entire ride shuts down. That's why I feel so safe. If you get a check engine light in your car, chances are you'll keep driving for a little longer until it can be checked out. On roller coasters, you stop as soon as possible, even if it's not in the station. If the ride kept running, things could get much worse, which is why SFGAm had such an excellent safety record.

[Shockwavegirl]

Shockwave had 3 blocks....trust me, I worked there, I know...

A block: lift
B block:drop to block brakes
C block:block brakes to end of ride

The brakes at the end of the ride can hold all three trains. But WAS NOT considered a block because all three trains could be in it with no collisions, or trouble lights, or the ride shutting down.

When you have passed the operators test for a ride, is when you can start criticizing what those who have passed it, has said.

As long as the brakes at the end of the ride can hold all trains with no collisions, the ride can have as many trains as there are blocks. On a busy day, with all three trains on, the ops strive for the ride moving at all times. This meant that as soon as a train left the lift, you would send another, while this train approaches the top of the lift the first would be going through the mid-point block brakes,when the second train left the lift, you would send the third, at that time the first train should have finished the ride,and the second would be hitting the block brakes, and the process begins again. So in this scenario, when the ride is running well at full capacity there is a train in every block of the ride. If there were only 2 trains on, the second train would be sent as soon as the first hit the block brakes at the rides midpoint.

The station is NOT considered part of the A block because a train could be in the station, and one on the lift with no problems, and is not considered part of the c block because a train could be in the station, and 2 in the end brakes, with no problems. And since the station, is tecnically not a part of the ride cycle, it was not considered it's own block because the brakes at the end of the ride can hold all 3 trains even if there isn't one in the station.

I know that was long and drawn out, but I hope that the uninformed are now informed, and maybe won't make comments based on ignorance, and can now make comments based on knowledge.

[m11stephen2]

Its confusing to me but as long as nothing crashes im ok!

[FParker185]

well technically there were 4 blocks on the whole brake run/station, then the other 3 out on the course, but Arrow used floating blocks, where the block was just a bit longer than the train and on that section of track the block would float along with the train, and that was seperate from the 3 actual blocks out on the ride, which is why there were often 2 trains in the station at one time, the back of a train leaving and the front of the entering train.

Neat system, and very complex, though in the end it doesnt accomplish alot with 3 train operation. Now if they decided to keep 4 trains on full time and built the unload station then it would have been quite useful.

[Galvan]

I find it amazing that these know-it-alls are arguing with people who actually worked on/at/with the rides themselves....


Funny

Continue

[Shockwavegirl]

^ THANK YOU Galvan!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh good lord.......at this point and time I would KILL for a copy of the Shockwave training manual. SHOCKWAVE HAD 3 BLOCKS.....end of story. The training manual, the lingo used by maintenace/ops/supervisors contained information on A, B, C blocks...and station. NEVER did anyone use the word floating block.

The literal definition of a roller coaster block is an area of the ride where no more than 1 train can occupy at a time. Since you said yourself, the station will have the front of one train, and the back of another in the station at one time, and the brake run can hold ALL the trains at a time.......IT CAN NOT BE A BLOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeez, I answered that question a couple of times on tests while getting certified for Shockwave, once for the attendant test, once for the 1 train ops, once for 2 train ops, and once for 3 train ops. I think I know.

There is no technically about it....it had 3 blocks, an end brake run, and a station.....END OF STORY.

[RagingBullFan]

There is Gemini's 3 wonderful blocks, and yes we can do 3 train operation as it is right now, just add the 3rd train and it'll go. Arrow Dynamic's design of its rides doesn't seem to make sense unless you operate it, then you'd really understand.

[Shockwavegirl]

Thank you Kyle. I believe I have found a kindred spirit in you. I only wish that Shockwave's control panal was still around, so that I could do the same thing. But I will tell the skeptics this....that control panal is nearly identical to Shockwave's maintenace controls.

[msoeagle]

What ever happened to the Shockwave control panel?

[Binks Drake]

It's now in a museum of old rides no one cares about anymore...

[twixmix0303]

All right, look at it this way, the computer system thinks of each brake/holding point as a separate block. On the other hand, since a lot of the brakes are just holding brakes right behind the station, they are not considered to be blocks when it comes to ride operations, just holding points. So (possibly with the exception of floting blocks since I'm not sure how those work exactly) a ride needs at least n+1 (where n this the number of trains) holding points, even if some of those holding points were not considered to be part of any block when it came to ride operations. So, yeah, Shockwave's training manual said it had three blocks and I'm sure that's true, it had more than 3 holding points to safely run the trains. Whether you call them blocks, holding points, track sections, or whatever you need at least n+1.