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RMC EAGLE?

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby IssaCoaster on July 3rd, 2019, 1:35 pm
Sven18 wrote:
anewman35 wrote:An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.


RMC Conversions are relatively inexpensive(ie..Why SF has done them with their Capex limitations, especially if you chop them like SF does. The RMC conversions done by SF, have been small, not adding a lot of height or chopped length thus have ranged from 10-12M. The 1st Ground up I-Box ..Zadra public info from the contract had it at 10M Euros about 11.4M USD.The "expensive" RMC's are when you have long tracks, don't chop them or go all out...Launched like Lrod 22M, Steel Vengeance 20M+, Hakugei documented at 2.8B Japanese yen(25.9M USD) and Gwazi RMC permit have it valued at 20M, plus the values of other associated permits will put it at 22M+.

Zadra is a huge coaster... and it only cost around 10 million? That's a steal.
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Postby IssaCoaster on July 3rd, 2019, 1:44 pm
Sven18 wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ This is assuming that Great America competes with Cedar Point and vice versa. I thought I read on one of the posts about finances that Cedar Point doesn't consider Great America a competitor?

Sven, you're the expert on this one. What are your thoughts about the 2 parks "competing" with each other?


It's really SFGAm considers Cedar Point competition, but not vice versa. SF mentions CP in their annual report as a competitor as well as Kings Island, each being respectively 340 and 350 miles away. CF has never mentioned SFGAm in that regards. CP as a destination park w/ hotels and resorts does advertise in the Chicago market and many midwest cities. SFGAm does not advertise in what you would say is CP's backyard..ie...Cleveland area or western Ohio, etc...


Cedar Point continues active effort to expand more into Chicago market.
https://abc7chicago.com/entertainment/s ... k/5375707/

What does this have to do with the RMC Eagle? Push Six flags to make more rides? And for most people in this area, I don't think Six Flags has to worry too much about losing customers to them. We are a regional park. Convenient to travel to. Cedar Point is more of a resort at this stage. Besides, people will want to go to six flags and Cedar point. We just aren't considered competition to them. The only competition we have with them now is between Maxxforce and TTD XD
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Postby Sven18 on July 3rd, 2019, 1:54 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ This is assuming that Great America competes with Cedar Point and vice versa. I thought I read on one of the posts about finances that Cedar Point doesn't consider Great America a competitor?

Sven, you're the expert on this one. What are your thoughts about the 2 parks "competing" with each other?


It's really SFGAm considers Cedar Point competition, but not vice versa. SF mentions CP in their annual report as a competitor as well as Kings Island, each being respectively 340 and 350 miles away. CF has never mentioned SFGAm in that regards. CP as a destination park w/ hotels and resorts does advertise in the Chicago market and many midwest cities. SFGAm does not advertise in what you would say is CP's backyard..ie...Cleveland area or western Ohio, etc...


Cedar Point continues active effort to expand more into Chicago market.
https://abc7chicago.com/entertainment/s ... k/5375707/

What does this have to do with the RMC Eagle? Push Six flags to make more rides? And for most people in this area, I don't think Six Flags has to worry too much about losing customers to them. We are a regional park. Convenient to travel to. Cedar Point is more of a resort at this stage. Besides, people will want to go to six flags and Cedar point. We just aren't considered competition to them. The only competition we have with them now is between Maxxforce and TTD XD[/quote]

Read the thread & the posts before the one quoted, that's what it has to do with the discussion. People were talking about potential competition. Ye s,CP is a resort & even more so that they just announced today the purchase of SawmiIl Creek Resort near the park & sports complex.
https://www.cedarfair.com/news/article/ ... mill-creek
https://sawmillcreekresort.com/
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on July 3rd, 2019, 2:19 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
anewman35 wrote:An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.


RMC Conversions are relatively inexpensive(ie..Why SF has done them with their Capex limitations, especially if you chop them like SF does. The RMC conversions done by SF, have been small, not adding a lot of height or chopped length thus have ranged from 10-12M. The 1st Ground up I-Box ..Zadra public info from the contract had it at 10M Euros about 11.4M USD.The "expensive" RMC's are when you have long tracks, don't chop them or go all out...Launched like Lrod 22M, Steel Vengeance 20M+, Hakugei documented at 2.8B Japanese yen(25.9M USD) and Gwazi RMC permit have it valued at 20M, plus the values of other associated permits will put it at 22M+.

Zadra is a huge coaster... and it only cost around 10 million? That's a steal.


Zadra has that "signature" RMC element, the Zero-G roll!! At first glance, the entire lift hill looks exactly like Goliath!
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Postby Sven18 on July 3rd, 2019, 3:03 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Zadra has that "signature" RMC element, the Zero-G roll!! At first glance, the entire lift hill looks exactly like Goliath!


Building the lift hill like done on both saves money over all the structure needed for a standard wood coaster of the same height.
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Postby JackGlass on July 4th, 2019, 3:11 am
I didn't realize Zadra was that cheap. Maybe that's what's coming to Great Adventure next year. A ground up RMC. It would certainly fit the description "Tall, Fast and Steel"

As far as the American Eagle goes. Can they make prefabricated track for it like El Toro? They're both Intamins and the prefabricated track seems to last much longer.
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Postby Sven18 on July 4th, 2019, 8:20 am
JackGlass wrote:I didn't realize Zadra was that cheap. Maybe that's what's coming to Great Adventure next year. A ground up RMC. It would certainly fit the description "Tall, Fast and Steel"

As far as the American Eagle goes. Can they make prefabricated track for it like El Toro? They're both Intamins and the prefabricated track seems to last much longer.


My 2 bets in order as of now:
1)RMC Raptor - a bigger model that RMC said many parks were asking for. Can go up to 200ft with a Raptor.
2)I-Box ground up

GAdv is the only major park in the chain without a RMC since they tore down their one conversion candidate.
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Postby CoasterDemon on July 4th, 2019, 11:08 am
IssaCoaster wrote:And for most people in this area, I don't think Six Flags has to worry too much about losing customers to them.


Great America has lost an incredible amount of customers over the years, and continues to do so. There will always be a new bunch of 14-25 year olds, so they can putter along getting a new game plan (and CEO) every few years. So many people that took their families to the park growing up in the 70s and 80s wouldn't even think about going to Great America. Years of poor and uneven service. This is across the board a Six Flags issue. Every single park in the chain has suffered.

Will Koch of Holiday World used to talk about treating people and their time with respect. They will do the promotion for you and you will have a life-long customer. Cedar Fair is the counter-example to Six Flags; they do it right. You won't be pushing your way through 1/2 mile long crowded exit pathways at a Cedar Fair park; they don't run out of ice every single July (or run out of Coke)...

Six Flags is horrible communications (on every single front), atrocious operations, mis-managed queues, bored/sad/acting-out employees who are barely given any training. And then the guests the park attracts. It would take a thorough internal restructuring to bring the SF parks even close to the level of the CF parks.

SF has some dynamite rides and locations (Magic Mountain, what a huge dump that has become in the last 2 decades), but it's like diamonds you have to fish out of dirty toilet. Personally, it's just not worth my time anymore. I've been to our home park 2 times this year, both visits were under 2 hours. I met up with friends and got a couple rides. After a visit last week to Adventureland (what quality and service!!) in Des Moines, I think I'd rather spend my time going to day-away parks rather than spending a few frustrating hours at SF Great America (which ironically, I consider to be the overall best park in the SF chain.)

IssaCoaster wrote:The only competition we have with them now is between Maxxforce and TTD XD


No competition. The whole experience of being at Cedar Point and waiting for TTD; the presentation of the ride, the excellent operation; the tight, efficient and respectful crews that run the ride. And last but not least, getting back on the midway after you ride. All an enjoyable experience. Six Flags doesn't look at things the same way.

End rant :)
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Postby jmanporty7 on July 4th, 2019, 11:47 am
Sven18 wrote:My 2 bets in order as of now:
1)RMC Raptor - a bigger model that RMC said many parks were asking for. Can go up to 200ft with a Raptor.
2)I-Box ground up

GAdv is the only major park in the chain without a RMC since they tore down their one conversion candidate.


8 passenger coasters (inline seating) are the last thing the big 3 six flags parks need (GAdv, GAm, and MM). So I would rule out a raptor. A 200, or 300 even, foot tall T-Rex (2 across seating) with a possible 24 passenger coasters would be much more beneficial for capacity reasons.
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Postby Sven18 on July 4th, 2019, 12:04 pm
jmanporty7 wrote:
Sven18 wrote:My 2 bets in order as of now:
1)RMC Raptor - a bigger model that RMC said many parks were asking for. Can go up to 200ft with a Raptor.
2)I-Box ground up

GAdv is the only major park in the chain without a RMC since they tore down their one conversion candidate.


8 passenger coasters (inline seating) are the last thing the big 3 six flags parks need (GAdv, GAm, and MM). So I would rule out a raptor. A 200, or 300 even, foot tall T-Rex (2 across seating) with a possible 24 passenger coasters would be much more beneficial for capacity reasons.


SF has proven they don't care at all about capacity, they put 4D's or Zacspins in their 3 biggest attendance parks...SFGAdv, MM, GAm. Maxx Force reiterates that, 16 per train ride that will be lucky to dispatch every 1:30, that means capacity of 640/hr. They could have done a double load station like TTD to increase capacity, but that costs more. They already skimped by putting a break on the last drop/inversion, just like they did with Full Throttle.

SF can not afford a Trex, they will have a high price tag. RMC has stated they need to big,high, drawn out layouts to get the benefit of the larger track over a Raptor. SF can not afford even a hypers, Trex's must be hypers, gigas, stratas and can go up to 500ft according to RMC. Out of SF's price range.
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Postby JackGlass on July 4th, 2019, 12:43 pm
I hope Cedar Point gets a 500 foot T-REX in the near future.

This is one of the main reasons why I'm against an RMC Eagle conversion. Six Flags would cut all sorts of corners to keep costs down, instead of just spending the $30+ Million and giving us an amazing roller coaster. Cedar Fair might not add a new ride at every park every year, but they make up for it with top notch additions like Steel Vengance
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Postby IssaCoaster on July 4th, 2019, 7:20 pm
JackGlass wrote:I hope Cedar Point gets a 500 foot T-REX in the near future.

This is one of the main reasons why I'm against an RMC Eagle conversion. Six Flags would cut all sorts of corners to keep costs down, instead of just spending the $30+ Million and giving us an amazing roller coaster. Cedar Fair might not add a new ride at every park every year, but they make up for it with top notch additions like Steel Vengance

From what I observed, Six flags has the safer strategy for the investors while the Cedar Fair chain has the plan that is good for the people that like their bigger parks. Idk which one is better though. But I agree with the statement about Eagle. They will cut every part they can to get the price down. That will be infuriating. But tbh, any type of conversion will be better than what the Eagle currently is. Our friend isn't doing too well right now.
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Postby jmanporty7 on July 4th, 2019, 10:14 pm
Does anyone know how much it cost for Knott's Ghost Rider to be refurbishment by GCI?
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Postby redrobinround on July 4th, 2019, 11:48 pm
sf announcemnts next month and some rides still under construction


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Postby Sven18 on July 5th, 2019, 2:41 pm
jmanporty7 wrote:Does anyone know how much it cost for Knott's Ghost Rider to be refurbishment by GCI?


Cost of stuff like this are never really known. This was a big refurbishment though, they did essentially all the track, most retracks are not this extensive. Also, they took out the midcourse break run & switched from PTC trains to Millenium Flyer trains.
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Postby B&MGuy35 on July 5th, 2019, 3:54 pm
redrobinround wrote:sf announcemnts next month and some rides still under construction


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Six Flags has pushed the announcements back already to October once all the new rides have opened.


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Postby Sven18 on July 5th, 2019, 4:21 pm
B&MGuy35 wrote:
redrobinround wrote:sf announcemnts next month and some rides still under construction


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Six Flags has pushed the announcements back already to October once all the new rides have opened.


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LOL!
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Postby JT2002 on July 5th, 2019, 5:44 pm
B&MGuy35 wrote:
redrobinround wrote:sf announcemnts next month and some rides still under construction


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Six Flags has pushed the announcements back already to October once all the new rides have opened.


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They may remove/ shut down rides before this though (like with King Chaos)
They say there isn't a spot in the park where rusting metal or peeling paint is at least 15 feet away from you.
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Postby ledgeland on July 11th, 2019, 9:35 pm
I still say I hope not RMC but hopefully they have plans. Blue is running super slow lately and Red is running a bit rough. Today is the first time I have seen both sides running all season, but of course they aren't racing.
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Postby Viper 88 on July 11th, 2019, 10:13 pm
Ok you can retrack it but DO NOT TOUCH THE LAYOUT! There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to turn it into a hyper or turn it upside down or twist or change the cars. We already have a hybrid don't need another!
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Postby awefawn on July 11th, 2019, 10:25 pm
ledgeland wrote:I still say I hope not RMC but hopefully they have plans. Blue is running super slow lately and Red is running a bit rough. Today is the first time I have seen both sides running all season, but of course they aren't racing.


I’m glad both sides can at least still run on the same day, i was worried that we were gonna get a one side at a time season. But seriously, a dueling coaster that cant duel? it NEEDS the retrack at this point.


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Postby SFGAM_Hog on July 11th, 2019, 10:30 pm
I totally forgot where I heard this from, but I heard an employee said to someone that after this season AE's trains won't be able to be used or they need to completely replace them. Not saying I do or do not believe it, but I hope they do give it a retracking and new trains soon.
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Postby jmanporty7 on July 12th, 2019, 10:03 am
SFGAM_Hog wrote:I totally forgot where I heard this from, but I heard an employee said to someone that after this season AE's trains won't be able to be used or they need to completely replace them. Not saying I do or do not believe it, but I hope they do give it a retracking and new trains soon.


Ghost Rider style do you think?

And what i mean by that is bring in GCI to retrack it and maybe add some new Millennium Flyers?
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Postby Druxxx on July 12th, 2019, 10:19 am
Under current corporate strategy, the most Six Flags would spend on American Eagle would be $20 million.
What would that get us?
A chopped up RMC?
Would that cover a complete re-track with structural improvements and 4 new trains?
Is there any chance six flags has been holding back spending some of there allotted new ride money knowing they would eventually have to spend big on the Eagle?
And since we just got Maxx Force, I would think we have 3-4 years before getting a large new attraction.
So Renovated Eagle would be 2022 or 2023
I would think from a marketing perspective it would make sense to do it for 2021 and the 40th anniversary.
And how many more years can they operate Eagle without a major renovation?
Now we have no racing.
Next year no simultaneous (Red and Blue) operation
Then what? SBNO?
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on July 12th, 2019, 12:13 pm
jmanporty7 wrote:
SFGAM_Hog wrote:I totally forgot where I heard this from, but I heard an employee said to someone that after this season AE's trains won't be able to be used or they need to completely replace them. Not saying I do or do not believe it, but I hope they do give it a retracking and new trains soon.


Ghost Rider style do you think?

And what i mean by that is bring in GCI to retrack it and maybe add some new Millennium Flyers?


I think this is the best choice in my opinion. GCI can really fix up this ride.
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