rich12_16 wrote:Your still not seeing the bigger picture....
"100,000 square feet new riptide bay."
People think "wow, 100,000 square feet, that's HUGE." A bigger expansion than a coaster or flat ride. Why do you think they put 100,000 square feet, instead of the acres, which would have been about 3, right? Makes it seem bigger....
Don't worry, your coasters and flats will come soon enough.
No, I do get it. It's not that big an expansion. So, once again, how will that bring in more cash flow than a flat which would take up even less room than this expansion?
What you're referring to is that there's room to get a coaster or a flat in the near future because this water park expansion isn't very big. My point is that this space, this three acres, would still be there for a water park expansion even if they added something for the dry park this year. And, as I've said, the dry park has been neglected in the thrill category for seven years already. The water park, as someone corrected me on, for four. People have been asking for something new to the dry park, less so for the water park.
And to look at this from another angle, every Six Flags park is supposed to be getting a big addition for next year, so...should we be happy about getting a relatively small addition to the water park?
So, some would say that maybe I'm looking at this picture as bigger than it should be. I'm not looking at this from a fanboy perspective because I'm not a fanboy. I am looking at this from a business perspective. This has already been a marketing nightmare for the park, and the people who are happy this is coming are happy because they feel this will lead to something big for the dry park in the future. Is that really the best grounds to move forward on?
It seems to me to be a reletively large new addition to the water park, equal in scale to Mardi Gras for example, with several new attractions in an area of the park that desperately needed expansion/updating. Good on Six Flags.
Plus if all you recall the initial announcement last year was for Glow in the Park and look what we got. Not only did we get a spectacular new nighttime parade that certainly kept people in the park longer, but also Magiquest, Sky Trail, Little Dipper, and tons of rehabs on buildings like the Market/Food Court, Whizzer's station, and general park upkeep.
Can some one explain to me how this has been a marketing disaster for the park? Also, how is the size of a Home Depot store, (roughtly 130,000 sq ft) considered small?
As for investigating Screamscape, I am well aware that plans change, but when you have a success rate less the 40% you cant blame all that on plans changing.
Galvan316 wrote:Can some one explain to me how this has been a marketing disaster for the park? Also, how is the size of a Home Depot store, (roughtly 130,000 sq ft) considered small?
You can just look at the Facebook page, where it was announced. It's not that hard to see. This has gotten an overwhelmingly negative response every since flying potato hacked the picture.
And so first you back up rich's thought that 130,000 sq. ft. isn't that large of an expansion, then you go back on that?
The Chef wrote:Plus if all you recall the initial announcement last year was for Glow in the Park and look what we got. Not only did we get a spectacular new nighttime parade that certainly kept people in the park longer, but also Magiquest, Sky Trail, Little Dipper, and tons of rehabs on buildings like the Market/Food Court, Whizzer's station, and general park upkeep.
I'm reacting to this one announcement of this one addition. Once again, reacting positively to this announcement because you think this means that more things are coming in the future is...interesting.
Galvan316 wrote:Can some one explain to me how this has been a marketing disaster for the park? Also, how is the size of a Home Depot store, (roughtly 130,000 sq ft) considered small?
You can just look at the Facebook page, where it was announced. It's not that hard to see. This has gotten an overwhelmingly negative response every since flying potato hacked the picture.
And so first you back up rich's thought that 130,000 sq. ft. isn't that large of an expansion, then you go back on that?
You are the wind.
Most people that are fans of the park on Facebook are either enthusiasts, or teens, which the park isn't catering to at the moment. As far as the 100,000 square feet thing, while it's not that large, the number is big, so the general public would assume that it's a big expansion. If they cram a lot of new stuff into the area, they wouldn't even know the difference, and would be happy. Especially because they don't spend the entire winter looking into it, and just know what the website tells them, the brochures, or the news.
The Chef wrote:Plus if all you recall the initial announcement last year was for Glow in the Park and look what we got. Not only did we get a spectacular new nighttime parade that certainly kept people in the park longer, but also Magiquest, Sky Trail, Little Dipper, and tons of rehabs on buildings like the Market/Food Court, Whizzer's station, and general park upkeep.
I'm reacting to this one announcement of this one addition. Once again, reacting positively to this announcement because you think this means that more things are coming in the future is...interesting.
I'm not reacting positively because I think more will come, I am reacting positively because it's a good addition.
I don't think anyone is denying that the park needs another major coaster. Honestly, I think we all know that, I think everyone at the park knows that, and I even think Six Flags corporate knows that. That is not really whats up for debate. Unless I am misunderstanding everything that's happening here, it seems to me like people are not supporting this because it's NOT a major coaster, not because it's not a good addition.
I am not a traditional coaster enthusiast, and really don't care for many of the coasters in the park, I go for the experiance. That being said, I really think that the park needs one more huge mega-coaster. That also being said, the water park is always packed, so an expansion was necessary (and a better idea then a second-hand stand up coaster in an awful location).
rich12_16 wrote:Most people that are fans of the park on Facebook are either enthusiasts, or teens, which the park isn't catering to at the moment. As far as the 100,000 square feet thing, while it's not that large, the number is big, so the general public would assume that it's a big expansion. If they cram a lot of new stuff into the area, they wouldn't even know the difference, and would be happy. Especially because they don't spend the entire winter looking into it, and just know what the website tells them, the brochures, or the news.
Facebook and sites like this are also their only gauge on how the public will react to this new addition at the moment. I find it hard to believe the powers that be are flat out ignoring the reaction this has been getting, even if it's been from a demographic they're not targeting.
Plus, if they weren't trying to appeal to the Facebook crowd, why are they even on there and why did they announce it there? Of course they were looking for a different reaction from the 132,000 people that follows them on Facebook, uneducated or not. Regardless of age, interests and knowledge, that's 132,000 people. Some like the addition, the majority don't. If you think the Great America brass are ignoring a negative reaction from roughly 100,000 people, you'd be crazy. And one thing about us Gen Y's...we're very opinionated and very willing to tell others about what we think. It's not hard at all to qualify Riptide Bay, in its very early stages, as a marketing nightmare.
One things that I haven't asked in my rants/posts so far is this: Will these new attractions cause people to come to the park solely for them? What I mean is, will a new drop slide make someone go "I have to ride that" and will they pay $50 to do it? A new coaster certainly does this, a big thrill flat less so depending on what it is. I think the surf machine has the best appeal when it comes to this, but will people pay full admission just to ride it? Then the question about a separate HH admission needs to be asked here.
I've said before and I'll say it again, Riptide Bay isn't an awful addition and it won't prevent me from going to the park if I have the chance to make it there next year. But this is missed opportunity for the park to appeal to a subset of the public that is starting to grow restless.
Coastermonkey61 wrote:Plus, if they weren't trying to appeal to the Facebook crowd, why are they even on there and why did they announce it there? Of course they were looking for a different reaction from the 132,000 people that follows them on Facebook, uneducated or not. Regardless of age, interests and knowledge, that's 132,000 people. Some like the addition, the majority don't. If you think the Great America brass are ignoring a negative reaction from roughly 100,000 people, you'd be crazy. And one thing about us Gen Y's...we're very opinionated and very willing to tell others about what we think. It's not hard at all to qualify Riptide Bay, in its very early stages, as a marketing nightmare.
Facebook is free advertising/marketing. Any company would be beyond stupid not to use it. And I'd 100% believe they are ignoring the negative reaction as fanboys and teens mean nothing to them. It's the once a year families that are going to "six flags" and not great america that matter. Also, the old saying goes "any publicity is good publicity" is true here.
One things that I haven't asked in my rants/posts so far is this: Will these new attractions cause people to come to the park solely for them? What I mean is, will a new drop slide make someone go "I have to ride that" and will they pay $50 to do it? A new coaster certainly does this, a big thrill flat less so depending on what it is. I think the surf machine has the best appeal when it comes to this, but will people pay full admission just to ride it? Then the question about a separate HH admission needs to be asked here.
The Flow riders will bring people in. People need to understand how important a water park is to any theme park. Time and time again it has been shown water parks bring in people in droves for ultra cheap. New coasters just do not give the same return on investment.
Do you people know how long it takes to plan a coaster?
Chang and Road Runner Express don't count because they are just being moved, I'm talking about a brand spanking new coaster.
It takes a while, a solid couple of months. New management had only two months, maybe a month and a half to finalize things and get liscencing deals for all the new attractions for 2011, while Shapiro had a couple of years to do it.
Lets look at what Weber had to deal with. I know that Dare Devil Dive was a thing that Shapiro had planned. So isn't Texas Giant. SFMM is a thing Shapiro had planned. (both sides of Superman going backwards) SFNE's attraction was changed, GAdv's attractions were cut and Chang is in place, possibly flats, GAm's was changed, and I know SFA was cut. I don't know what TGE was supposed to get under Shapiro, I'm assuming the mouse because Weber was giving them the mouse but changed last minute to SFNE. Still not sure about SFDK and StLouis and the international parks.
So the time Weber had to work with, it wasn't even possible for Great America to get a coaster in 2011. In 2012 though you're rumored to get one and I guarantee you that you will.
It takes years to plan a non production model coaster. Hell just to move chang plans were made up in 2009 at least, by the time I heard it was moving last January it was already a nearly done deal, except of course the final destination and rolling stock. A major coaster like say a Hyper or even a floorless or similar would take 2-4 years minimum.
Favorite Wood Coasters: The Voyage, Ravine Flyer II, Thunderhead, Balder Favorite Steel: Voltron Nevera, Steel Vengeance, Expedition GeForce, Olympia Looping Parks visited: 232, Coasters Ridden: Steel: 894, Wood: 179, Total: 1073
monsterfan99 wrote:Facebook is free advertising/marketing. Any company would be beyond stupid not to use it. And I'd 100% believe they are ignoring the negative reaction as fanboys and teens mean nothing to them. It's the once a year families that are going to "six flags" and not great america that matter. Also, the old saying goes "any publicity is good publicity" is true here.
That is just a fundamentally flawed way of thinking. "Any publicity" has led to no lines at The Dark Knight and Buccaneer Bay.
It's roughly 100,000 people, who you have directly marketed to, reacting negatively to your latest addition. They're not ignoring that.
I posted a thread on here about that research boy. Looking back on it, you actually posted IN it! post186041.html#p186041
B&M making their own version of Furius Baco isn't exactly a 4D. Five years later than these supposed "concept art/plans" nonetheless. A 4D would have had to have been in the works since 2002 or 2003 for this to even be a "real" project. So... eight years later, and that's all they got. Nice "4D."
Not to mention that the whole idea of "Project Tumbleweed" was made up by enthusiasts. But I'm sure it was really going to happen.
monsterfan99 wrote:Facebook is free advertising/marketing. Any company would be beyond stupid not to use it. And I'd 100% believe they are ignoring the negative reaction as fanboys and teens mean nothing to them. It's the once a year families that are going to "six flags" and not great america that matter. Also, the old saying goes "any publicity is good publicity" is true here.
That is just a fundamentally flawed way of thinking. "Any publicity" has led to no lines at The Dark Knight and Buccaneer Bay.
It's roughly 100,000 people, who you have directly marketed to, reacting negatively to your latest addition. They're not ignoring that.
As monsterfan99 said, it is mostly fanboys and teens that are reacting negatively to this. Teens do not spend a significant amount of money at the park to make much of a difference. They usually buy a season pass or visit one time a year, often with their parents. The parents will often times make the call if they are going or not, and the teen will just go along with it. Then you have fanboys, some of which are teens, and others are just stupid adults who know nothing else about the amusement industry. I don't see either one of these groups planning on boycotting the park just because a new coaster wasn't added. I'm a fanboy when it comes down to where I'm considered in those demographics, but the lack of a new coaster isn't going to keep me away from the park for a whole season, or a period of time until they do get a new coaster. A trip to SFGAm is a trip to SFGAm to me. If I'm riding coasters somewhere, I'm happy. Most fanboys are the same way. So basically most of the 100,000 people that the park is ignoring are probably still going to go to the park anyway, regardless of a new coaster.
I will say this for my opinion. The lack of a new coaster doesn't motivate me to go to the park for next season. I have other issues in my life right now that may even prevent me from visiting at all next season. If I don't make it there, I'm not going to feel bad about it, simply because I know I didn't miss anything I'd find significantly new. If there was a new coaster at the park, I probably would try to plan specifically one trip to the park. Until then, I'll just go whenever a few other friends of mine are going.
Okay I just want to say something, teens do spend a significant amount of money, parents always give them boatloads of money to spend. I would know this because I am a teen and my friends to the exact same thing.
bizarroboy wrote:Okay I just want to say something, teens do spend a significant amount of money, parents always give them boatloads of money to spend. I would know this because I am a teen and my friends to the exact same thing.
Not everyone is spoiled like that. When I went to the park when I was a teen, I'd be lucky if my parents gave me money for my ticket. After that, I'm buying everything on my own.
^I am 15 and i have to say that i have to work for every penny i make. I make a hourly wage right now at Dairy Queen for 8.15, so whenever i go to six flags, i tend to try to keep the cost of the trip way low down. On the other hand, im friends with kids who are VERY spoiled. They spend money on the most useless objects where ever they go. I would say one of my friends spends about 70ish bucks each trip we visit to SFGAm, and that money is JUST on games and food. There not really roller coaster fanatics though, and most of the people i know are thrilled with the new HH addition. I was suprised there was a outcry of fans booing SFGAm on FB just because i know alot of people who want more water park add ons.
Wow all the hype and this is the result Water slides and attractions do costs less though as they are 70% plastic/fiberglass. Dang I was hoping for a great addition to the front section of the park. CHANG would've looked great on the skyline for the park.
bizarroboy wrote:Okay I just want to say something, teens do spend a significant amount of money, parents always give them boatloads of money to spend. I would know this because I am a teen and my friends to the exact same thing.
Not everyone is spoiled like that. When I went to the park when I was a teen, I'd be lucky if my parents gave me money for my ticket. After that, I'm buying everything on my own.
Oh and at age 14 you had a job, car, and everything else. I've only been to six flags once this year, and I don't own a season pass or anything.
2-4 years ago we came off a big addition to Hurricane Harbor (Tornado) and corporate was in the middle of dealing with the plunging stock as well as the decision to remove the costly/unpopular rides (Deja Vu, Splash Water Falls, Space Shuttle America). They had no intention of bringing in a good ride to the park for 2010 or 2011. I am sure of it. I don't even think we will get one in 2012 unless it is another used ride from a park that does not get much out of it....Scream! lol
You know when I was littler and not tall enough to ride any of the rides I wanted something new in the skyline. Something that would be like WHOA what is that???? It's been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time since I was that little -_-
Last Visit, American Eagle BACKWARDS 5 times in a row right before the park closed. I cannot WAIT to go back for Fright Fest!
Galvan316 wrote:Can some one explain to me how this has been a marketing disaster for the park? Also, how is the size of a Home Depot store, (roughtly 130,000 sq ft) considered small?
You can just look at the Facebook page, where it was announced. It's not that hard to see. This has gotten an overwhelmingly negative response every since flying potato hacked the picture.
And so first you back up rich's thought that 130,000 sq. ft. isn't that large of an expansion, then you go back on that?
You are the wind.
I miss read rich's comment...
Regardless, I think Riptide is an excellent addition to SFGAm and I NEVER use the waterpark.
Water slides and attractions do costs less though as they are 70% plastic/fiberglass. Dang I was hoping for a great addition to the front section of the park. CHANG would've looked great on the skyline for the park.
