SFGAm announces Rip Tide Bay

[Flying_Potato_Man]

Well i think it will take atleast a few more years to get SF out of debt. And then i dont know if there first priority when they escape debt would be to add a major coaster to our park. Just my opinion though. And im usually wrong lol

[FParker185]

I highly doubt SF will ever be out of debt.

[rizash]

Corporations do not have to be debt free in order to be successful... the vast VAST majority of businesses have some debt. If you think every business has paid off all their land, buildings, equipment, standing floating and just in time inventory, AND pays its employees, medical, utilities, taxes etc on time you need to do some research. Debt really doesn't matter to a company -- its the company's ability to stay in the black (as in, MAKING money rather than losing money). If you are in debt and in the black, this means you are paying all your bills and paying down your debt little by little.... If six flags did not upgrade ANYTHING for the next 10 years they would be debt free, but would probably have 1/10th the attendance, very unsafe rides, and a very bad reputation. On the other hand through responsible spending like high capacity, highly reliable roller coasters, or through low cost low operating cost rides like flat rides (with a good track record) and water slides... you can bring in a few more people and claw your way back into the black while still making a FEW upgrades.

Bankruptcy/debt also does not mean there will be no big budget rides, it just means they have to justify it through attendance and earnings... the argument here is what parks deserve the best rides? Some officers may argue that the parks with the LEAST draw need the most improvements, others would counter argue and say that the busy, money making parks deserve the biggest improvement. SFGAM has been the most profitable park in the franchise for quite a while, but I hope managers realize that a "fleet" of aging clone thrill rides won't keep people happy forever.... We love the entire park, but stop trying to appease everyone and decide what you want. Don't give us a very expensive but dull water ride (BB) in exchange for a coaster, then try to make up for it with a VERY expensive mac wild mouse, and THEN say look at all we've given the dry park! Now we need to go crazy with the waterpark.... I'm sorry but water parks are EVERYWHERE for a reason, little ones are easy to make money off of, but when you want to make it an attendance draw you need to go big or go home, the same with the thrill rides.

I understand the thinking "would HH stand on its own as a water park?" clearly it wouldn't -- you would have to cut the admission by more than half to have a chance... so they want to make the water park better to support the park (and justify the money they've spent on it) but you can't forget about what made six flags great america -- the THEME PARK.

Again I don't like this expansion one bit... I think it is a waste of a few million dollars, I really can only justify this expansion if it cost less than 2 million to build -- and again I have always had the same view -- they should have skipped the dark knight, saved the money to fix deja vu and have a few million left over to save towards a new coaster. If they had done this, the money they saved from not getting TDK + the money saved from not buying BB and this expansion could have gone to a ~10 ~12 million dollar coaster, or they could have done this expansion and purchased a USED coaster and put it in the park as well. Unfortunately instead of buying real rides they've bought top dollar clones (think of TDK BB and this water park expansion as counterfeit name brand shoes or purses). They paid top dollar and lost out on a lot, and really gained nothing in return. While some people may be fine with a fake name brand item for 3/4 the price, you don't get the recognition... and you don't catch people's eyes... on top of that, if they do detect the low quality, you'll become a laughing stock.

The thing is we don't know if they already owned these rides (from the bonzai beach in SFKK), and if they did this is a great move to hold over water park nuts to make up for the thrill seekers they are losing by not getting any thrill rides.... If they had to purchase this equipment, these rides, and take this much land from the park in order to upgrade HH this is a tragic mistake.... HH needs a HUGE expansion after this to even be in the same ballpark as a real waterpark -- and if you ONLY go for the water park you're paying a lot more to get in HH than you would at a real water park. If over the next decade they do plan on making HH an attendance draw... they will need every bit of this space (go-karts + ssa) plus a huge chunk of the parking lot section closest to HH to make it viable. And again... how many people that will never set foot in HH pay for it by higher and higher admissions?

[rich12_16]

Man, what would you guys have done in the 1970's when the park opened, and there were only a few coasters. Or if your home park was a smaller park that only had a couple. You should be happy with what we have, and take this addition as a blessing. Just see it as more people going to the water park, less people in line for the coasters. Plus, water parks are the new thing. Great America will add a new coaster soon enough. Just give it a bit more time, the park isn't going anywhere. .

[Ilovthevu']

^I agree with what you are saying to be happy with what have. Before 2005, we didn't even have a waterpark (just a parking lot)! In 2001, it was a great year for me with V2, and Deja Vu coming in, but yet Deja Vu is gone, but still those are some great rides in my opinion, and than Superman came in 2003 which in my opinion beat up Shockwave by a long shot. In 2004, they added the Balloons, and I like that ride. For Dark Knight, I like that ride compared to Ragin Cajun, so our park has really gained in my opinion over the years some good stuff. Now, was the Dark Knight a great addition to the regulars? No, not really, but I enjoy it.

And yes, it is sad to see something like Space Shuttle America go bye bye, because I pretty much made sure I get on that ride everytime, but the movies have become out-dated in which how many people have seen them, and you can just see less and less people riding that attraction, so there is a reason why it's gone. I didn't like it standing but not operating for a year, but what can you do?

[Coastermonkey61]

Man, what would you guys have done in the 1970's when the park opened, and there were only a few coasters. Or if your home park was a smaller park that only had a couple. You should be happy with what we have, and take this addition as a blessing. Just see it as more people going to the water park, less people in line for the coasters. Plus, water parks are the new thing. Great America will add a new coaster soon enough. Just give it a bit more time, the park isn't going anywhere. .

Where to begin:

1. If we were in the 1970s we wouldn't be clamoring for big roller coasters and thrill rides because very few of them existed.
2. Water parks aren't the new thing...at all. Just because HH is new doesn't mean the idea of a water park is, they've been around for decades.
3. New attractions for the water park means more people for the water park, not necessarily less people for the dry park. The question is whether these additions will bring in more people and more money in to the park as a whole than a high-capacity, eye-catching flat ride would. I have my doubts.

The last big coaster the park got was Superman in '03, and that isn't debatable with Ragin Cajun, TDK or Little Dipper. Those are all family rides. It will now be at least 8 years before the next one. The last big thrill ride the park got was Revolution and King Chaos in '04. People (or at least me) aren't complaining about the park lacking these rides. We're just wondering how much longer the thrill crowd needs to wait for another addition, especially when you consider the flat rides that have been removed in the last decade.

People are allowed to not be happy with every addition to the park if that's not what they think will make the park better. It's astounding what the human mind is capable of doing, being able to reason on its own. We're not lemmings, and we don't have to live in a rosy cloud and think everything the park does is perfect.

I may have gotten a little too dramatic there. Whoops.

[rich12_16]

Man, what would you guys have done in the 1970's when the park opened, and there were only a few coasters. Or if your home park was a smaller park that only had a couple. You should be happy with what we have, and take this addition as a blessing. Just see it as more people going to the water park, less people in line for the coasters. Plus, water parks are the new thing. Great America will add a new coaster soon enough. Just give it a bit more time, the park isn't going anywhere. .

Where to begin:

1. If we were in the 1970s we wouldn't be clamoring for big roller coasters and thrill rides because very few of them existed.
2. Water parks aren't the new thing...at all. Just because HH is new doesn't mean the idea of a water park is, they've been around for decades.
3. New attractions for the water park means more people for the water park, not necessarily less people for the dry park. The question is whether these additions will bring in more people and more money in to the park as a whole than a high-capacity, eye-catching flat ride would. I have my doubts.

The last big coaster the park got was Superman in '03, and that isn't debatable with Ragin Cajun, TDK or Little Dipper. Those are all family rides. It will now be at least 8 years before the next one. The last big thrill ride the park got was Revolution and King Chaos in '04. People (or at least me) aren't complaining about the park lacking these rides. We're just wondering how much longer the thrill crowd needs to wait for another addition, especially when you consider the flat rides that have been removed in the last decade.

People are allowed to not be happy with every addition to the park if that's not what they think will make the park better. It's astounding what the human mind is capable of doing, being able to reason on its own. We're not lemmings, and we don't have to live in a rosy cloud and think everything the park does is perfect.

I may have gotten a little too dramatic there. Whoops.

I'm not saying that it's a perfect addition, but, with the way the economy is, we should be glad we're getting an addition at all. You all have every right to complain about it, but try looking at it from a buisness standpoint.

As far as what I said about water parks are the new thing, I meant that more of them are popping up, and, in this area, with the Dells being near by, Great America needs to keep the water park fresh to compete in the summer.

Who's to say this new addition won't include a new flat or two, the and more could be very broad.

I think that when they finalize the plans, and release some artwork, you guys will be a bit more happy.

[RagingFanatic]

Really, I sound like a noob here. What is project tumbleweed YOU DONT KNOW WHAT PROJECT TUMBLEWEED IS???????

no.

no i dont.

can someone please tell me? thanks!

[rich12_16]

Really, I sound like a noob here. What is project tumbleweed YOU DONT KNOW WHAT PROJECT TUMBLEWEED IS???????

no.

no i dont.

can someone please tell me? thanks!

It was a rumored addition to the park that never happened.

[Cole]

Project Tumbleweed was a rumor on screamscape.com. Tumbleweed was rumored to be a 4-D coaster (like X2) that was coming to SFGAm. Of course it never happened.

[Coastermonkey61]

I'm not saying that it's a perfect addition, but, with the way the economy is, we should be glad we're getting an addition at all. You all have every right to complain about it, but try looking at it from a buisness standpoint.

As far as what I said about water parks are the new thing, I meant that more of them are popping up, and, in this area, with the Dells being near by, Great America needs to keep the water park fresh to compete in the summer.

Who's to say this new addition won't include a new flat or two, the and more could be very broad.

I think that when they finalize the plans, and release some artwork, you guys will be a bit more happy.

I am looking at it from a business standpoint, read my post again. Adding something decently sized, flat or coaster, would arguably bring in more people and more money than a slide and a surf machine. They've made additions to the water park every year since it was built, they could have taken a year off or made a minor addition, like just the vertical slide. Remember, Great America doesn't need to keep the water park fresh in order to compete with competition. People come for the dry park, pay for the dry park, and go to the water park in addition. Maybe that will change in the future if they make HH a separate admission, but right now, the dry park is the moneymaker by far. Their focus should be there since they've spent so much time focusing on the water park since it was built.

I'll reiterate my first point. Add a big, eyecatching thrill to the dry park will bring in more money than what Riptide Bay will, which means more money to do a water park expansion in the near future. Instead we get an addition to the water park that didn't need one right now.

I'll also reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread about people expecting more with the "and more" portion of the release...if it were a bigger ride, water park or otherwise, it would have been released. The reason Little Dipper was so late was because it was a last-second purchase. Could that happen again? Sure. But if there's people who think "and more" means a couple more slide or a water coaster, you will be sorely disappointed. If "and more" is anything more than another snack bar, a hot tub, and/or a lounge area I'll be stunned.

[BLADE]

Project Tumbleweed was a rumor on screamscape.com. Tumbleweed was rumored to be a 4-D coaster (like X2) that was coming to SFGAm. Of course it never happened.

YET.

[acquaz10]

I highly doubt SF will ever be out of debt.

Thats a stupid thing to say sorry. Look at them now. The reason everyone is getting shafted and getting last minute additions is so they can get out of debt faster. They were supposed to be out of debt in 2015 with Shapiro going all out in 2011, but it would have put them back in bankruptcy with what he was planning I bet.

Project Tumbleweed was probably planned and they most likely even have concept art for in somewhere. All parks dream up big plans and save up money for it. Screamscape has good sources and wouldn't report BS rumors like that if he didn't have substance to them. I don't see Tumbleweed happening though since GAm is getting landlocked.

I think Rip Tide Bay is a perfect addition for 2011, and hey I've also heard that some of these slides are going to be pretty unique.

[The Chef]

^- Most companies have debt, I think we can pretty much guarentee that Six Flags will never be out of debt, it's just about getting it down to a manageable level.

They've made additions to the water park every year since it was built, they could have taken a year off or made a minor addition, like just the vertical slide.

Uh...The last addition to the water park was 2006, what are you talking about?

Also the water park is always packed when it's open, I can't imagine the profits from Hurricane Hanks and the Pink Flamingo, they are always busy. Families love the water park.

The goal has always been to change the demographic that Six Flags has catered to in the past. If you are so negative about the addition it's obviously not designed to appeal to you.

[Ilovthevu']

The company still has $1 billion in debt, so it's no cakewalk to fix in my opinion. And to me keeping the season passes low isn't going to help bring down that $1 billion debt fast. It's okay to put in cheaper attractions, and if a lot people aren't enjoying those type of attractions though one could say a $7 million ride isn't cheap no matter how you look at it, and thus it was a poor investment.

Though sometimes, I look at Six Flags, and I wonder if they will understand that hey we have to worry about us (By us, I mean saving Six Flags corporate.) sometime, and they are in a heap of debt still, and thus don't give to the parks every year. People will still come anyway. Is it better to have a Six Flags, or is it better for Six Flags to go out business because of every year they are adding expensive new rides at every park?

[acquaz10]

^Where have you been. Right now its probably less than 700 million. And that number is growing less and less quicker. With all the ads and everything they've been doing to get out. They know the season passes are undervalued and most likely will go up.

[FParker185]

Ive never seen or even ever heard of an amusement park or park chain with no debt, it's not physically possible, unfortunately amusement parks are built on massive amounts of debt, it's all about how it's leveraged, SF has it pretty good now, but sooner or later they will need to add sizable amounts of capital chain wide, and the debt will only grow from there.

[Galvan]

Current Six Flags debt is 833 Million.

[rct2wizard360]

Project Tumbleweed was probably planned and they most likely even have concept art for in somewhere. All parks dream up big plans and save up money for it. Screamscape has good sources and wouldn't report BS rumors like that if he didn't have substance to them. I don't see Tumbleweed happening though since GAm is getting landlocked.

HA! You are so gullible my friend.
It's been five years and I still don't see a B&M 4D anywhere. Guess again.

[Galvan]

Screamscape.....

Interesting little website, but maybe you need to check out the Original "Galvan: Investigates" thread.

http://www.sfgamworld.com/forum/great-america-forum/topic10799.html

[rich12_16]

I'm not saying that it's a perfect addition, but, with the way the economy is, we should be glad we're getting an addition at all. You all have every right to complain about it, but try looking at it from a buisness standpoint.

As far as what I said about water parks are the new thing, I meant that more of them are popping up, and, in this area, with the Dells being near by, Great America needs to keep the water park fresh to compete in the summer.

Who's to say this new addition won't include a new flat or two, the and more could be very broad.

I think that when they finalize the plans, and release some artwork, you guys will be a bit more happy.

I am looking at it from a business standpoint, read my post again. Adding something decently sized, flat or coaster, would arguably bring in more people and more money than a slide and a surf machine. They've made additions to the water park every year since it was built, they could have taken a year off or made a minor addition, like just the vertical slide. Remember, Great America doesn't need to keep the water park fresh in order to compete with competition. People come for the dry park, pay for the dry park, and go to the water park in addition. Maybe that will change in the future if they make HH a separate admission, but right now, the dry park is the moneymaker by far. Their focus should be there since they've spent so much time focusing on the water park since it was built.

I'll reiterate my first point. Add a big, eyecatching thrill to the dry park will bring in more money than what Riptide Bay will, which means more money to do a water park expansion in the near future. Instead we get an addition to the water park that didn't need one right now.

I'll also reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread about people expecting more with the "and more" portion of the release...if it were a bigger ride, water park or otherwise, it would have been released. The reason Little Dipper was so late was because it was a last-second purchase. Could that happen again? Sure. But if there's people who think "and more" means a couple more slide or a water coaster, you will be sorely disappointed. If "and more" is anything more than another snack bar, a hot tub, and/or a lounge area I'll be stunned.

Your still not seeing the bigger picture....

"100,000 square feet new riptide bay."

People think "wow, 100,000 square feet, that's HUGE." A bigger expansion than a coaster or flat ride. Why do you think they put 100,000 square feet, instead of the acres, which would have been about 3, right? Makes it seem bigger....

Don't worry, your coasters and flats will come soon enough.

[Galvan]

Excellent point Rich,


130,000 sq feet is the size of your average Home Depot store, so think about that for a second.

[Cole]

Galvan Investigates: Is there room for another major coaster?

[The Chef]

Yes...

Splash Spot, The Flumes will die eventually, Wilderness Area, Amphitheatre Area, Replace Iron Wolf, HUGE piece of land between Whizzer and Viper if they ever decide to move Harbor's Entrance. And then some...

[acquaz10]

HA! You are so gullible my friend.
It's been five years and I still don't see a B&M 4D anywhere. Guess again.

Want a B&M 4D? Here you go?
http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/vi ... 03#p915303
Do some research before you post.

Like I said, parks dream up crazy things and submit them to corporate to get them approved and sometimes they do sometimes they don't. I'll be you that the park does have plans in the office and concept art with Project Tumbleweed on the top of it. Screamscape wouldn't report BS rumors.

What "Galvan Investigates" doesn't realize is how fast plans can change.