SFGAm and Mr. Freeze?

[david]

Budget money was cut short.

[rct2wizard360]

I think FParker posted awhile back that you can check out the blueprints at local library around the park that show the planned theming.

[monsterfan99]

^ I doubt that they would put Raging Bull in at St. Louis under that name. We actually had SWT.

That was the planned name. Everything you see today, marketing and theme wise, would have been the same at SF STL. The manager who put the merchandise out last year on closing day said they had been in boxes for over a decade.

[onyxhotel08]

I cannot imagine goine to Six Flags Great America and riding Mr. Freeze instead of Raging Bull..can u?

[sfgamfan717]

I'm sure we would have gotten a bigger B&M hyper a couple years after Mr. Freeze

[Ilovthevu']

Where would it have gone, Yankee Harbor? It doesn't seem like it would fit without something being removed.

Remember, V2 wasn't there before, and I betch you they were going to theme it to Gotham City instead (Mr. Freeze, Batman). This was such a better idea than Raging Bull. And this really makes a whole lot of sense because Mr. Freeze is in a stupid section of the park at SFStL - DC Comics - huh?? However, at Great America it would have made sense in Gotham City.

[FParker185]

The ending figure 8 was simply going to pass though a ghost town, nothing with DC or anything like that, also the lead car of each train was going to have horns on it.

Also Mr Freeze was going to go in Yukon Territory if I remember the announcement right, possibly in place of Wilderness Theater is part of the picnic grove.

SFGAm has no money, all money goes to, and then comes from SF Corperate. Raging Bull was signed for by Time Warner, then in 1998 when Time Warner sold six flags to Premeir Parks, first thing premeir tried to do was stop it due to the sheer cost of the ride (which came from a company that later put themselves 2.7 billion dollars in the hole via similar purchases), however the ride was to far along in production to be canceled, so premeir just cut the $$ for everything else besides physically the ride itself.

[onyxhotel08]

How much did Bull cost? 20 million? I wonder but mostly likely no SFMM projects were in danger..

[BP317]

I wonder but mostly likely no SFMM projects were in danger..

Goliath's theming was cut just like Raging Bulls was. The original plans from Time Warner were much more elaborate. You can clearly tell the phases the parks were in by which ride you are looking at. Premier built a lot of coasters but they were very much into the whole "build ride and don't spend money on anything else" business, hence rides like SUF having plywood walls surrounding the line. The same could be said for Bally with rides like Iron Wolf. If you look at additions under Time Warner's watch, like Giant Drop and BTR, they were clearly themed much better.

[onyxhotel08]

I wonder but mostly likely no SFMM projects were in danger..

Goliath's theming was cut just like Raging Bulls was. The original plans from Time Warner were much more elaborate. Someone sent me a pic years ago but due to switching computers several times it got lost but it looked much different than what they actually built (which was the sign, the big feet in the queue, and the station walls).

Rather scarifice theme than the ride itself

[bizarroboy]

I think FParker posted awhile back that you can check out the blueprints at local library around the park that show the planned theming.

Do you know which library and what to look under? I think I'm going to check it out if I have time.

[onyxhotel08]

Why?

[bizarroboy]

Just to kill some time..

[Coaster Justin]

Wonder What "Goliaths" theme was going to be.

This Topic is really cool, I Like it.

I Wonder what Else Premier-Parks Butchered? (Besides Everything)

[david]

Now that I think about it, our park really did flourish during the Premier Parks and Time Warner AND Bally era. Wish we could go back to those times. You know when thrill was #1. Six Flags should just stick to thrill. Get the LARGE 12+ group rather tahn the under 8 and parents group. That's one thing I disliked about Shapiro. He kept sacrificing other park factors for families.

[BP317]

I really liked Shapiro's stragey for SFGAm's additions although it started a couple years before he became CEO. Some of you are too young to remember but SFGAm (and the other major SF parks) became very bad in the late 90's/early 2000's. At that point in time the parks clientele was awful and the family crowd really had been shunned from the park. Who wants to be waiting in line around a bunch of teenagers making out and cussing at eachother? The additions of Mardi Gras, waterpark, and Wiggles were all key factors in turning around the parks clientele. The main problem I see now is that their season passes are too cheap and the parking is too expensive. Cheap season pass + expensive parking pass = teenagers being dropped off, and thats not exactly what they need. I can understand why you might be frustrated its been so long since SFGAm has gotten a major thrill ride, especially since GAm has a long history of getting cutting edge coasters, but knowing that the #1 priority for SF needs to be making sure their parks are pleasant to visit. No better example of that than Magic Mountain in the early part of the decade. They had a lot of great new coasters but the park was awful and the only way they got people to go back was by adding new rides to their debt which makes it near-impossible to sustain a business.

[onyxhotel08]

Dark Knight, Buccaneer Battle, and Spygirl were TERRIBLE additions. On every level. And SWF is dead and empty for 3 seasons now.

[BP317]

Dark Knight, Buccaneer Battle, and Spygirl were TERRIBLE additions

Notice I left those 3 out

The additions of Mardi Gras, waterpark, and Wiggles were all key factors in turning around the parks clientele

However I do think the intent behind them was in the right, just poor execution. I don't think Buccaneer Battle was a terrible addition as much as a terrible location, a ride like that (especially considering its capacity) should have gone where it would get more riders having entrances both the water and theme park like Pilgrims Plunge has.

[Coaster Justin]

I Kinda Like Buccaneer Battle. It Just needs Riders.

[david]

A theme park that has a water park half the size of the dry park should NOT be adding water additions in the dry park. Bucanner battle belongs in hurricane harbor.

[Galvan]

Yesterday while everything and I mean everything else had over an hour wait. BB was pretty much a walk on. And thats with it being 90 degrees outside.

Pretty much tells you all you need to know about the failure known as BB.

[david]

I waited like 5 minutes at 3:00. That gives an even bigger picture. I think the misters on the midway are more popular.

I don't think Corporate will be ordering anymore MACK water rides. haha!

[Ilovthevu']

I really liked Shapiro's stragey for SFGAm's additions although it started a couple years before he became CEO. Some of you are too young to remember but SFGAm (and the other major SF parks) became very bad in the late 90's/early 2000's. At that point in time the parks clientele was awful and the family crowd really had been shunned from the park. Who wants to be waiting in line around a bunch of teenagers making out and cussing at eachother?

Our park was bad around the 2000's because they decided hey let's build 2 roller coasters in one year, and they couldn't do that, and also you had a person getting their foot stuck on the Cajun Cliffhanger, you had poles of Power Dive just sitting there, and basically a terrible area of what was to become Mardi Gras. It wasn't a genius idea to put in Mardi Gras, but rather it was just a needed idea. They needed something in that area because it was bad in that area. The waterpark wasn't even Shapiro's doing neither Mardi Gras.

Doesn't our park just copy off of the other Great America anyway? In 2004, the other Great America gets a waterpark. Shockingly, in 2005 they get an expansion waterpark. In 1996, no way they get a drop tower. In 1997, we get Giant Drop. In 1992, we get Batman the Ride and 1993, they get Top Gun. In 1998, they get Invertigo, and in 2001 we get Deja Vu. In 2001, they get a mouse coaster and in 2004 we get a mouse coaster.

In a way, the waterpark is a smart idea, but in a way it's a dumb idea to have with the regular park. It's smart because if people ever paid $55 to get in and they are in the waterpark a bunch of the time, you know that most waterparks are nowhere near $55 unless it's somewhere like Orlando, so they are getting a bunch of money from the waterpark. However, I also feel it is sort of a dumb idea because of the freeness to the waterpark. If people go to the waterpark for 2 hours, and the park spent $25 million on it plus whatever Tornado cost, it just seems like a ton of money if people are only going 2 hours. However, you have to remember that the cost I would think are very high for a waterpark. It is like it's own park, and not just a Raging Bull, or a Superman. How many lifeguards do you have just patrolling the wave pool, and lazy river? So, would it been smarter to have it a separate gate as for the company itself. For a park like Six Flags St. Louis, the waterpark included in admission makes completely and utterly sense. It's because in my opinion the park isn't loaded with the tons of goodies our park is loaded with, or you could say Holiday World it makes sense for the same reason.

Our park is not as huge as Cedar Point, but I would say the offerings in number of rides is less, but yet we have a whole lot of rides, and so do they.

As for BB, it serves them right for not fixing Deja Vu as Silverwood has, and instead putting a stupid ride in.

[sfgamfan717]

I dont understand why they are keeping clipper closed when it is a very popular ride and keeping BB open when it is always a walk on

[Ilovthevu']

^They are going to keep on running BB just to prove that the ride has a purpose. You don't close down a ride you just built. For Yankee Clipper, the ride probably uses a lot more water than BB, and the park figures they have Logger's Run anyway which is similar except for the drops, and the look of the boats themselves.