What's all the complaining about? (Version 2.0)

[rct2wizard360]

Tis the season!

The park is open, the coasters are running, the smell of funnel cakes fill the air.
And what do you all have to say about it?

"WAH!"
The park finally opens for the season, after God knows how many countless hours you spent on RCDB drooling over Raging Bulls first drop, and half of the trip reports are complaining about the "theme being gone" and "Karate Whizzer Kid." Please don't waste your time attacking me if I misquoted you. I read all this complaining about Whizzer and you still seem to ride it. The same style of advertising was used on Mind Bender at SFOG a year or two ago, and as tacky as it looked, I didn't see a lot of people complaining about it. They just enjoyed an amazing ride on a classic coaster. You should too.

These ads are whats helping the park stay open so you can go there with your Top Thrill Dragster T-Shirt with all of the stats on the back and correct and sometimes even "educate" the general public about the roller coaster they're in line for while you're face is covered in a blue ICEE. These ads are a big part of what's helping you to be able to keep providing the general public with such a great service.

Yes, I know this was a very mean and hateful post. But the thing some of you need to realize is this is a business. As much as Disney has put it in your head that theme parks are a magical world where nothing matters; THIS JUST IN! THEY ARENT! They are business. Businesses can fail you know, or get pretty darn close. Like Six Flags!

So please, you are entitled to your opinion, but let's realize some facts before you do.
Because honestly, some of you still need to graduate middle school.

[Ilovthevu']

This is going back to the topic that was closed. The reason why Iron Wolf no one cared about much is because how many enthusiasts, and general public people really like Iron Wolf. If you aren't riding, it's probably not bothering you at all. The difference with Whizzer is that people are going to say that it's a classic because it's been at the park for so long, and they are messing it up.

For Iron Wolf tearing it down today, you might get 2 cries, but Whizzer tearing it down, you will get 5,000 enthusiasts not wanting to tear it down just because it's been their forever. If they tore it down, I wouldn't care AS long as their is something better. I really like Whizzer, but they could be another great type of ride to replace it, and I would be okay with Whizzer gone, but that's not the point.

I'm sorry to say to the people against the complainers is that people have opinions. People and enthusiasts are not always going to think that everything in the amusement park is wonderful. I'm sorry to say but some people actually have opinions about how good or bad things are done at the park, and don't just drink the Great America Kool-Aid all the time.

And the reason you don't hear about Mind Bender is because that's at Six Flags OVER GEORGIA. It's first off an under-rated park, and it's nowhere near Great America!!!

Now for me, do I care that they changed the Whizzer into Karate Kid? To me, it doesn't bother me much about the train, but I haven't been in the line, or station. Plastering something is different than advertising something. For Iron Wolf, yes it did bother me with that sign. It's just because it was blocking the view of seeing the station (How long is it, how many trains are there, and so on!), and that Space Shuttle America thing was just absurd.

And to me for theme and Whizzer, really what's the theme of Whizzer? It's called Whizzer for goodness sakes! The regular billboards they have in the park though don't bother me one bit, or the advertisements that change. In line for Demon they have Strident, and that doesn't bother me. The advertisements in line when they had Deja Vu, that they didn't bother me with Heinz ketchup.

And for Driving Force on V2, seriously who doesn't want to see Brittany Force, and the other 2 sisters. Also, driving Force makes sense for a ride that deals with Speed = Velocity. That's a perfect advertisement for that ride. Hey, I welcome it back. New pictures of the women!

[Paradise]

Simple, simple, simple, simple solution!!! Don't Go! Just please DON'T GO! Then we don't have to hear about how the park is SUCH a disgrace, although you continue to still put yourself through "hell" by going there.......

[monsterfan99]

Apparently you can not complain about anything and everything Six Flags does is amazing

[guitarhero119]

^Obviously it isn't a perfect park, but I feel as if all the good in the park is being overshadowed by trivial things.

In the Chang topic there are many people who want either a GCI or Chang. How do you supposed they are gonna pay for that? Ads on Wizzer. To me this isn't ideal but whatever. At least the ride is still running. Now by no means am I making the assertion that we are getting one of the two aforementioned rides, but I can get on board with dealing for ads for a year if it means more park improvements down the line.

I think that sometimes that people jump off the deep end about minor issues. Its fine to complain, but once in a while step back and look at what you have. Compare the park to what the people of Louisville have this year.

[Paradise]

^Exactly. I don't the occasional "This sucks", but some have just gone overboard and it makes them sound realllly whiney..

[monsterfan99]

Now by no means am I making the assertion that we are getting one of the two aforementioned rides, but I can get on board with dealing for ads for a year if it means more park improvements down the line.

If it was a one time only deal, I would agree with you. The thing is, it won't just be a one time deal. That is where my problem is. You throw an ad on one coaster, then another then some flats, soon enough every ride is a moving billboard. Even today Six Flags announced plans for more aggressive media marketing in the parks including ads on the menu boards at the restaurants. At what point does it does it start to turn people away from the parks or give the park an even worse reputation?

[tp41190]

There are two types of complaining though.

One is the "OMG why can't we have 18 coaster like MM, why do they get all the good stuff".

And then there is the "This sucks, it could be better and they should do this".

Here is the thing, although it is a business and there is not much a guest can do to change something, stating a opinion can help. Businesses sometimes need to know from people what can be changed to make it better. Why do you think they make suggestion boxes. If I owned a business I would like to hear every complaint imaginable. That way I can take it all in and make my business better. I have a huge list of things about the park I didn't like this year but none of them have to do with coasters but more about operations.

[rct2wizard360]

And the reason you don't hear about Mind Bender is because that's at Six Flags OVER GEORGIA. It's first off an under-rated park, and it's nowhere near Great America!!!

Under-rated? or not as a good as? Because there's two definitions off of one word in there.

I'm sorry to say to the people against the complainers is that people have opinions. People and enthusiasts are not always going to think that everything in the amusement park is wonderful. I'm sorry to say but some people actually have opinions about how good or bad things are done at the park, and don't just drink the Great America Kool-Aid all the time.

I completely agree with you on this, but there is a difference between having an opinion and turning that Kool-Aid into Hater-ade.

If it was a one time only deal, I would agree with you. The thing is, it won't just be a one time deal. That is where my problem is. You throw an ad on one coaster, then another then some flats, soon enough every ride is a moving billboard. Even today Six Flags announced plans for more aggressive media marketing in the parks including ads on the menu boards at the restaurants. At what point does it does it start to turn people away from the parks or give the park an even worse reputation?

Do you still see those ads on V2?
Is Mind Bender still loaded with Hair Gel?
No.

These ads come down, and I'm sure we wont see much of the Karate Kid once you can see it somewhere else.

Have any of you ever been to a sporting event? Like at the United Center during a Bulls game?
Where we have to sit through a minute of watching a Donut, a Cup of Coffee, and a Bagel race around in a circle? I don't here anyone sitting there saying it's such an inconvenience to them. But that must be a bad example, since there's no racing donuts across Whizzer.

A lot of you know how to present you're opinion in a great way. You state it. You don't come on the boards screaming and whining about how the evil man that is Mark Shaprio ruined your favorite ride.

[wishman35]

At least at a sporting event, the arena puts the advertising to good use. When we have to "sit" through those Dunkin Donuts races, we are given an incentive to receive an item for free. We are also being entertained "so to speak" by a game on the screen that encourages the whole crowd to play along.

Another thing is that advertising at arenas has been a staple of them for years and years (aside from Wrigley for a while) .. it is what you have come to expect at a game or concert.

A theme park like Six Flags seems to be a different situation, the advertising has never been as prominent. That is like having a tollway with no billboards for your lifespan, and then one day they are lined up every 1000 feet... you are sure to be irritated by the eye sores.

And about "appreciate what we have compared to Kentucky.." .. doesn't seem to make a difference really. If you want good entertainment and attractions nearby, clearly you DO NOT live in a state like Kentucky or a similarly rural, attraction-less area.

We all enjoy Six Flags, but just because we are complaining about about a few things and want to share with fellow fans to see if they agree doesn't mean it needs to spark an influx of hatred about it. They are opinions and there is no need to continue to follow them if it really irritates you so much. Just move on to your happier threads. The beauty of the internet is that you can click on something else, but that does seem to be a problem for many

[Galvan]

^
Maybe I need to remind some of you people that Six Flags is BANKRUPT! So those ads that people are complain and moaning about are actually (and i know this is going to sound like a shock) HELPING to keep the park open.

So your argument (and its a pretty weak one ill add) about sporting events giving you an incentive to sit through a Dunkin Donut's race, while SFGAm's dont give any sort of incentive is pretty ridiculous. Given the fact that the Karate Kid ad's are more or less helping pay some of the bills.

[Cole]

Yeah, and now would be the best time to advertise, theres never anyone at the park!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Ilovthevu']

My thought on sporting events is that each player costs a lot more than 1 million dollars in order to play, and their are a lot of players. It says for this year (2009 / 2010) alone for the Chicago Bulls, that the Bulls players cost $69 million. They are spending this much per year on the team, and that's not the regular employees that work at the stadium, or the stadium upkeep. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

Six Flags Great America isn't putting in $69 million worth of money per year at all! So, they really need to advertise like anything at the United Center. Something I have never seen at a Chicago Bulls game is the basketball court that says Hawaiian Punch, or some other thing. Sure, there are electronic ads but you really don't have to look at them. You can just look at the court. Well, I guess there are like 2 ads near the court, but my point is you are really paying for the players, and the advertisement really helps. I'm sorry, but Six Flags isn't paying $69 million a year on rides at ONE park!!

A Dunkin Donuts racing contest is a whole lot of fun if you ask me. Again, another over tacky thing would be the Bulls players having Home Depot on their jerseys, but they don't do that. That's going overboard which seems like they are going overboard at the Whizzer.

Again, their is a huge difference between advertising, and going overboard with advertising such as plastering it everywhere in front of your face like anything. From what people are saying on Whizzer, they have plastered Whizzer with ads everywhere!! (in line, on the train, along the exit).

[UWW-10]

I'm sorry, but Six Flags isn't paying $69 million a year on rides at ONE park!!

Yeah.....the company isn't spending $25 million dollars to place one coaster at one park, but they are spending those kind of figures (maybe not $69 million) around all of their properties on upkeep and improvements....and that money has to come from somewhere. I know I don't have a "business-type" mind, but I'm willing to bet that profits from admission, parking, food, and merchandise doesn't even begin to cover the vast amount of money needed each year for all the expenditures.

As stated before, it's a business and they'll do what they have to in order to bring in the $$$. If someone asked you to plaster an ad across your body as a "walking billboard" and were going to then give you x-amount of dollars for it....wouldn't you do it regardless of how tacky or unattractive it made you look? People might get annoyed or sick of looking at it (or whine and complain)....but you know that in the end, it's a benefit to you and the ad company. You got money (a reward) and they got their product name out there. On a much larger scale, Six Flags is doing the same thing.

[Bob O]

" But the thing some of you need to realize is this is a business. As much as Disney has put it in your head that theme parks are a magical world where nothing matters; THIS JUST IN! THEY ARENT! They are business. Businesses can fail you know, or get pretty darn close. Like Six Flags!"

The above statement is very true!!! But disney is a magical place and why as a business they are very successful, and sadly why shapiro worked for them, he didnt learn enough about how to run a theme park, if he did he wouldnt plaster useless adds all over the place to ruin any type of magical experience!!
And when you run the gamut from parks as varied as BGW/Silver Dollar City/Dollywood/Holiday World you arent assaulted with ads everywhere you go, and dont even get a escape from them in the bathroom. The ads are just one of many problems the SF company has. They are likely to be back in bankruptcy again and this park would have been much better off if the company went out of business and had been bought out by a better company!!

[UWW-10]

Disney is its own "advertisement"....in many different ways. Disney still does have promoters though...and while they don't plaster walkways and rides with posters and decals, it's still there....and probably meets the specifications of what the ad companies want, but overall Disney is promoting Disney on their properties and just about everywhere else you can think.

The issue is that while Six Flags and Disney are both in the business to "entertain"....Six Flags is nowhere near the threshold of what Disney is able to do. Shapiro knows this because in one of his first interviews he said he was never going to make "Six Flags like Disney, but use some of the guiding principles"....notice he didn't say use all of them.

So...Disney advertises (shocker!!), just not with posters and decals covering everything.

[Bob O]

When you ride Tower of terror you wont see posters/ads on the outside of the ride vehicle or any on the ride itself.

Ads can be ok if they are very subtle inside the park and dont impact the ride experience. Now if the Haunted Mansion had blinking neon signs(and for that matter cast members also had similar stupid outfits) then it would impact the ride experience. And shapiro sadly isnt using enough of disney's guiding principals. He needs to read some books on Walt Disney and realize that "the show" has to come first.
As an example-
"I’m reminded of a story that Disney legend Marty Sklar tells which best illustrates this point.

Marty Sklar had just begun working at Disneyland in 1955 when he drove with a photographer to a photo shoot. "He wanted to take a shortcut, so we took a dirt road that ran near the Rivers of America," Sklar recalls. "We passed a man in a floppy hat and parked the car, which was visible to the Mark Twain riverboat as it passed by."
The man in the floppy hat turned out to be Walt Disney. "Within seconds, Walt was right there poking his finger in (the photographer’s) chest! He snapped at us, ‘What are you doing with that car here in 1860?’"
"That day," Sklar continued, "we had intruded on the show, destroying its context for anyone who could see the car. We had taken people out of a magic environment and suddenly thrown them back to reality. It was one of the greatest lessons I ever received from Walt about maintaining the integrity of the stories we tell at our parks."

And while SF will not be able to achieve this and disney doesnt it as well as when walt was alive, SF needs to strive to be a magical experience and not a place where you have a few good rides and a bunch of crass ads/crap all over the place. And if they get better at doing so more people will visit and spend more money once they are there. As other parks besides disney accomplish this and dont lose billions of dollars and end up in bankruptcy.

[monsterfan99]

^That is the truth right there and better than I could explain how I feel as well. It's all in the matter of how you go about things.

[Soxman]

When you ride Tower of terror you wont see posters/ads on the outside of the ride vehicle or any on the ride itself.

Ads can be ok if they are very subtle inside the park and dont impact the ride experience. Now if the Haunted Mansion had blinking neon signs(and for that matter cast members also had similar stupid outfits) then it would impact the ride experience. And shapiro sadly isnt using enough of disney's guiding principals. He needs to read some books on Walt Disney and realize that "the show" has to come first.
As an example-
"I’m reminded of a story that Disney legend Marty Sklar tells which best illustrates this point.

Marty Sklar had just begun working at Disneyland in 1955 when he drove with a photographer to a photo shoot. "He wanted to take a shortcut, so we took a dirt road that ran near the Rivers of America," Sklar recalls. "We passed a man in a floppy hat and parked the car, which was visible to the Mark Twain riverboat as it passed by."
The man in the floppy hat turned out to be Walt Disney. "Within seconds, Walt was right there poking his finger in (the photographer’s) chest! He snapped at us, ‘What are you doing with that car here in 1860?’"
"That day," Sklar continued, "we had intruded on the show, destroying its context for anyone who could see the car. We had taken people out of a magic environment and suddenly thrown them back to reality. It was one of the greatest lessons I ever received from Walt about maintaining the integrity of the stories we tell at our parks."

And while SF will not be able to achieve this and disney doesnt it as well as when walt was alive, SF needs to strive to be a magical experience and not a place where you have a few good rides and a bunch of crass ads/crap all over the place. And if they get better at doing so more people will visit and spend more money once they are there. As other parks besides disney accomplish this and dont lose billions of dollars and end up in bankruptcy.

Perfect! I am a huge Disney fan and I know SF will never be Disney, but they can learn a lot and do a lot based on those teachings.

My biggest pet peeve of the park right now is the music. I heard the same songs 10 times on Saturday. It got old real quick. My Daughter was riding Columbia and the radio music blasted out the organ. What happened to simple instrumental park music? Create a relaxing fun environment and stop playing old radio songs over and over again.

The ads are getting to be much, but SF has always had ads. Putting them on a coaster took it too far and it does take away from the experience. It is okay to have a company sponsor a ride (like Disney does) and have small signs placed at the entrance/exit of a ride, but on the trains and station is overkill in my opinion. I had no desire to see Karate Kid before Saturday and now between the Whizzer and the preview playing throughout the day, I will never see Karate Kid.

[tp41190]

The park wouldn't need the ads to make money if they were to get more people into the park and spend money. So instead of taking the easy way out and slapping ads everywhere, they should increase the quality of the park overall and make people want to come back. They also need to be able make guests want to spend money inside the park. I'm not saying build more coasters. Instead do what is proven to work (like what Disney does) and put theming into the park...it worked well for Marriots. Why can't it work for Six Flags as well?

They want to attract families but all they have really done is cater to families with very small children and now, if they decided to add Chang, Thrill Seekers. I would rather see a good family coaster added instead of another B&M. As of now the only real family attractions in the park are the water rides, whizzer, eagle, viper, cajun, TDK, and a few flats. That isn't enough for a family to do in day. A family with 2 kids between 8-12 aren't going to want to ride kiddie rides in Wiggles World. They are going to want to ride rides they all can enjoy. Like a said before a well themed wooden coaster would fit the park pretty nicely. But that is just my opinion but I know everyone will jump on my ass about it.

They also need to bring back some more shows and costumed characters...and not the Justice League. If they were to theme the areas again, use some unique music, have more "custom" shows, add costumed characters to each themed area, and add some special food places in each section that would benefit the park is such a positive way. I asked my aunt and uncle who have kids between 7-13 and they said there wasn't enough to do. They said that most of the rides were either too big or too small.

This is also a observation of mine but it seems to me that all the other Six Flags property are getting much better in overall quality and operation. And Great America has been the complete opposite. After my visit to SFMM and I actually think SFMM looked nicer then GAm after going to opening day.

[monsterfan99]

^One step in the right direction them made is the character meet-and greet areas that were added for this year. They have a nice background and a photographer there as well. I saw two already and they are nice.

[mvp1200]

SFGAM isnt perfect but all of these people are complaining about the park.
If you don't want to go then don't go.
If you want to wait for Chang then wait.
It is a fun place to spend a summer day or two and has many decent thrill rides.
Take along road trip to STL of Indiana or just take a drive to SFGAM and have a good time.
Just keep your complaints to yourself.

[Necropolis]

yuck. reading all this complaining is giving me a headache literally. This is just me but I was a little bothered by the fact that whizzer's trains were covered in that karate kid ads, but im sure once the movie is out those ads will be gone...hopefully. I dont care about the ads in the other rides, (stride gum in demon line, miracle whip in iron wolf line,etc) its just the fact that the ride and trains themselves are covered in ads. I dont like seeing a train for any ride covered in ads. Keep it normal. Put the ads anywhere but not the ride itself.

[david]

For those of you complaining about Whizzer, this one's for you.


OMFG Little Karate Kid Caeser's! OMFG!


omg! dfaksjfasjf- what does karate have to do with pizza?!?!?! -afkjasdfklsf


Whatever company is doing their advertising is really hitting everywhere, so please stop the complaining.

[Chitown]

They want to attract families but all they have really done is cater to families with very small children and now, if they decided to add Chang, Thrill Seekers. I would rather see a good family coaster added instead of another B&M. As of now the only real family attractions in the park are the water rides, whizzer, eagle, viper, cajun, TDK, and a few flats. That isn't enough for a family to do in day. A family with 2 kids between 8-12 aren't going to want to ride kiddie rides in Wiggles World. They are going to want to ride rides they all can enjoy. Like a said before a well themed wooden coaster would fit the park pretty nicely. But that is just my opinion but I know everyone will jump on my ass about it.


This is also a observation of mine but it seems to me that all the other Six Flags property are getting much better in overall quality and operation. And Great America has been the complete opposite. After my visit to SFMM and I actually think SFMM looked nicer then GAm after going to opening day.

Here is a list of the rides the whole family can enjoy if the kids are not toddlers.
1. Sky Trek Tower
2. Columbia Carousel
3. Home Town Fun Machine
4. Triple Play
5. Train Ride
6. Whizzer
7. Orbit
8. Demon
9. Buccaneer Battle
10. Viper
11. Chubasco
12. River Rocker
13. Ricochet
14. Giant Drop
15. Great America Raceway
16. Jester's Wild Ride
17. American Eagle
18. Fiddler's Fling
19. Logger's Run
20. Little Dipper
21. Whirligig
22. East River Crawler
23. Yankee Clipper
24. Ragin Cajun
25. Big Easy Balloons
26. Roaring Rapids
27. Condor
28. Rue Le Dodge
29. Most of the waterpark

So you are saying they don't have enough for a family to enjoy? Wow, I must be dreaming of the 29 items I just posted.

You complain about SFGAm lacking family attractions but then you state SFMM is getting better quality stuff? That park is nothing but thrill seeking rides. It lacks everything else.