Jerrykoala2112 wrote:Well, if that is his excuse, how will he explain Dark Knight and Buccaneer Battle? Those don't seem to fit the area, but they aren't bad additions. I think Shapiro is also being a little to, ummm, he blames the previous management to much. Premier made South West Territory, it is very well done! All they need to do is put some water on Ricer Rocker. Every other area seems generic.
Maybe instead of getting a 10 million dollar coaster, re-theme rides and all that. Those new rehabs will be much more worth then a coaster.
I agree 150% with that statement!! I'd love to see Yukon back to it's old ways....Orleans is okay, but could use a little work. County fair still "kinda" seems like a county fair just because of the games. SWT is simply amazing and the highlight of all my visits to SFGAM. I'd mainly like to see a Yukon renovation or at least re-theme it.
Have a take and don't suck, it's the Jim Rome Show!
Agreed. Southwest is amazing, but when you walk out, there isn't a real transition. Here's what I would like to see with the park for 2011 if we don't get a coaster.
A Sketch of what I want to see. If I have time, I'll get into detail.
Six Flags (after premier changed their name to Six Flags) did make Hurricane Harbor and Golden Kingdom though, both are themed just as well. SF probably still has the same designers.
I rather have superheroes, and movie themed stuff than things like Mardi Gras, or Yankee Harbor. Heck, I wanted the Space Shuttle area to be even more improved. Move the Orbit, or buy an Orbiter, and put it over there. Theme it to Marvin the Marsians. They totally ruined that area now. I would have loved from all the way from Orleans Place to Yankee Harbor be superhero stuff. They have Superman and Batman (2 of them) in those areas already, just make it all that way. but add some villians too.
Do any of the general public care that Yankee Harbor light house is gone? NO!
Do most people go I want to go to Southwest Territory because it's themed really good, or do they go it has Raging Bull, Viper, and Giant Drop?
Back to the original topic, my Venture went out a long time ago, and I thought holy cow that place is never going to close. Instead, the company went down, and all of them are gone now for good. One store in the chain, or place isn't going to save them all.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
Do any of the general public care that Yankee Harbor light house is gone? NO!
Back in the 70s when it was a theme park it had guests of all ages, including older people, that went there for the atmosphere and since the park was more true to its theme had a better flow. Somewhere in time SFGAm did away with a lot of the ambiance etc and shifted their clientele.
So really none of SFGAm's current guests care...but if the park had a real themed ambiance like it used to, I think people would care.
^^ Theming is one of those weird things when it comes to a lot of parks. If you do not put it in, your park looks cheap and average. However, putting it in, odds are, will not draw first time visitors in by the bus loads. However, how well themed your park is can have a large impact on repeat visitors that do not live close to the park.
People go to Disney, Universal & the former Busch parks in droves. Worldwide, those 3 account for 16 of the top 20 most attended parks. It's not just marketing and location that draw people back time and time again. The parks theme and how nice the places look are a huge reason.
Also, with the Venture example, that is comparing Apples to Oranges. Venture was a chain of stores built around a name. With the SF parks, they are the local park that just happens to be part of a chain. This is why, if you talk to non-coaster enthusiast, they will call SF Great America just Six Flags. To the best of their knowledge, there may not even be another Six Flags. Thus the park could change owners and run no problems if SF the chain were to go out of business.
Surprisingly enough one park I really liked in regards to atmosphere was Six Flags New England. When I went there in 2005 their entrance area had fantastic themed music and was overall immersive and very nice looking. Then when I went there in 2008 they had pop music playing and the buildings we're draped with no smoking banners, advertisements, and locker warnings. They pretty much butchered a very nice entrance to a very nice park.
Same with SFMM and SFGAm (and probably all other SF parks). SFMM used to play Yanni in the entrance area, now thats epic music for an epic park, it gets you pumped. Now they just play pop music which already gives you a sour taste in your mouth when your just entering the park. SFGAm as we all know used to have the americana music in the entrance plaza that fit really well, and same thing with the other parks now just pop music.
In my opinion, Islands of Adventure has great music. This song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPz37Uo849w was playing when I entered Universal Studios Hollywood and really builds up the excietment. I also really like the music they play in the area Golden Vine Winery area of Disney's California Adventure, the entrance area of Epcot, the swiss part of Fantasyland near Matterhorn, and the Asia part of Disneys Animal Kingdom. Alton Towers also has great themed music.
The reason I feel that so many people go to Disney, Universal, and Busch or Sea World parks is because of them being so different than all the other parks. Universal is riding the movies, Disney has one park that does that, another park goes around the world, a park full of animals + rides, parks full of adventure, fantasy, & space, and you have California Adventure which is basically Disney trying to get people not going to Magic Mountain, or Knott's Berry Farm, and it didn't work that good for them. Now, they are changing it.
Sea World has sea life, and Busch Gardens has animals. Even Disney's waterparks are different than Noah's Ark, or Magic Waters. One is like a cold iceberg, and the other one is a Typhoon. I guess the Typhoon has been done, but when you only have to pay not that much for Disney's waterpark added to a hopper, you can understand why they get the attendance they do. At least one waterpark in Florida is open all year on Disney property. Now, they even have more competition with the Sea World one.
You have to remember that Florida in general is helping these parks besides Disney survive. Disney started this in Florida, and people might go to Disney, and venture off to these other parks. Florida is a warmer climate all year, and it's really helping attendance, and it's a tourist paradise. How many tourists destinations (that's the key word) are there? Florida has to be really up there as destinations.
When I think of the US (I know that our park is just America in general, and not just the US), I don't really think of our park (Six Flags Great America). I think Hollywood (movies & television - anything associated with these, and there are ton of things), music (like Elvis, and Marilyn Monroe), Space Program (NASA), farmlands, and, big cities with big buildings (like New York, or our own city of Chicago).
The theming in our park is what I consider just like the other Six Flags. There's a Batman the Ride, Mr. Freeze, and Joker's Jinx. That's what I enjoy (Super Hero or Villian coasters that are good at Six Flags parks), but yet other sections, I'll go out of the park (if I don't know the areas) thinking what section was that? My favorite sections are SFOG, and SFOT (Gotham City). I don't know what SFMM is called, but they have Batman near Riddler, and than you have Atom Smasher, and the Round-Up is something maybe Riddler which is cool.
I can go into Magic Kingdom, and figure out this is the space section, this is cartoon characters section, and the other one is western. They are Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, and Adventureland, but if I go into a Six Flags how the heck do I know that Screamin' Eagle, and Rush Street Flyer is in IL especially if I live in MO?
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
California Adventure which is basically Disney trying to get people not going to Magic Mountain, or Knott's Berry Farm.
Disney doesnt care if people go to those parks, the more they have to do on property the more attractive hotels become. They made a small park like Disneyland into a destination by adding another theme park and two hotels, making it a vacation destination opposed to one theme park.
Ilovthevu' wrote:The reason I feel that so many people go to Disney, Universal, and Busch or Sea World parks is because of them being so different than all the other parks. Universal is riding the movies, Disney has one park that does that, another park goes around the world, a park full of animals + rides, parks full of adventure, fantasy, & space, and you have California Adventure which is basically Disney trying to get people not going to Magic Mountain, or Knott's Berry Farm, and it didn't work that good for them. Now, they are changing it.
The thing is, that is their theme. They are not so much different as much as the invest was made in the park and/or land theme. When I go to a SF or Cedar Fair park, I expect maybe 1 well themed area (if that) and other wise to look generally the same. Those parks above stand out because they took the effort to stand out. When you stand out and do something better then others, you will get repeat visitors.
You have to remember that Florida in general is helping these parks besides Disney survive. Disney started this in Florida, and people might go to Disney, and venture off to these other parks. Florida is a warmer climate all year, and it's really helping attendance, and it's a tourist paradise. How many tourists destinations (that's the key word) are there? Florida has to be really up there as destinations.
You also have to remember the main reason SF Great America is making tons of money and drawing in the people is a lack of competition. Put the same park in another theme park heavy area (CA, FL, Northeast, Ohio) and I'm not sure it would do very well.
Also, there are tons of tourist destinations in the US. Each state has many things that bring in people national and internationally. Even with Disney, central FL falls behind your majors cities and national landmarks. Also, the help of being a tourist destination means nothing for a theme park. Just look at the success of Six Flags America and all of the Las Vegas parks. A mass amount of people being there did/has not helped them that much.
^Well why was Splash Water Falls, or Demon in County Fair either? Why is Buccaneer Battle in that area? Where are the carnival rides? When I go to a County Fair, I don't see bigger roller coasters like American Eagle (especially a wooden coaster) Iron Wolf, or Demon. You might see Ragin Cajun, or a Pinfari, but not those rides that are in County Fair. Where are the animals in County Fair?
I would love to see a retheme of what I said (Orleans Place to Yankee Harbor) of Superhero stuff, but if they did that, is it really going to bring in more people? I think it might overtime, but maybe not the first year or so. Another thing that reminds me of the US that I didn't write about is Mount Rushmoore, the capital, and the Statue Liberty. I think Freedom of Religion or None to some people is another one because think of the people that are fighting over it, or the people are supposed to only be a certain religion in the world.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
^ It's not, then again, every single area in the park has something that does not fit.
^^ The superhero theme would not work because of how the current park guest are conditioned. Look at the Dark Knight. It has a good theme for what it is and a nice (but long) pre-show. It shows a lot of effort when they could have just it up in a box with zero theme to it. However, both guest and enthusiast crap all over it for being a wild mouse near another wild mouse. Something tells me if any area were to change it's theme, people would say the same thing but worse.
BP/19 (forgot your name) brought it up on Great America of old and new. Guest today are/have been conditioned to:
- Expect deals on ticket prices to bring them to dirt cheap level. - Themed areas to have their older rides themed, but the new ones just shoved in. Shockwave and now Superman are an example of this. - Ads are ok to be in the park and everywhere. - Food and parking should cost more then a ticket itself.
This was not the case in the beginning, but things have moved this way. At this point, I'm not sure they could ever move back if they wanted to and keep the same amount of guest in the park.
Im a little confused by your post. Your saying that if they didnt theme rides well now and if there werent excessive amounts of ads people would stop going?
BP/19 wrote:Im a little confused by your post. Your saying that if they didnt theme rides well now and if there werent excessive amounts of ads people would stop going?
Sorry, should have clarified better as I grouped them all together. It means that is what they expect. Thus when a ride or area is not themed, there is no issue. Also, when the park went from a few ads to them everywhere, no one thought any better of it.
With the discount, people expect one to go. The season pass is billed as a discount and I can't think of anyone that has paid full price to get in. Even if the park lowered their tickets to $35 retail price, more people would go with $55 retail priced tickets discounted to $35.
david wrote:Here's whats stupid. Six Flags had every opportunity to sell Magic mountain for more than it's worth, and they chose not to. Why not give every park a treat with a new coaster, or ride?
Hey smart one, Magic Mountain is a MUCH better park then SFGAm could ever hope to be, I really dont think you should be making all these 20 word topics. HAve you ever even been to SFMM? Nope? Thats what i thought.
david wrote:Here's whats stupid. Six Flags had every opportunity to sell Magic mountain for more than it's worth, and they chose not to. Why not give every park a treat with a new coaster, or ride?
Hey smart one, Magic Mountain is a MUCH better park then SFGAm could ever hope to be, I really dont think you should be making all these 20 word topics. HAve you ever even been to SFMM? Nope? Thats what i thought.
Funny. I've actually been to MM. Back in 2007. Here's a list for ya'
- MM - GAM - OG - StL - CP
Sure not as many as some of you ( ) but I've had my fair share of parks.
Magic Mountain to me is the most known Six Flags park in the chain. Sure, the people around here go Six Flags Great America because they are near it, but you shouldn't try to get rid of the one of the heads of the chain. Darien Lake, and Elitch Gardens no one really cares about, and for the people that live in those places, they are probably think understandably like this is the only park we have, and we will go to it.
If I lived in SFKK even though I don't really care for that park, I would probably still get a season pass because that's the major park except for Beach Bend. Positives of that park for me are the waterpark (with water coaster), Himilaya, Penguin's Blizzard River, mouse coaster, Thunder Run (sort of), and maybe Tidal Wave (I haven't been on that in a long, long time, so I forgot if it's even good or not). I still think that park is one of the worst parks I've ever been to, but what can you do if I wore to live in KY.
Getting rid of a park like Magic Mountain tells especially investors, your company is doing really bad, and to me they shouldn't have even thought about putting it on the chopping block. However, what I don't like is that they are still worried about the most coasters. Who cares about that?? It didn't help the park before, and why should it now? They need more flats plan and simple, or dark rides. Dark rides would be better because than they could get some different in the park, and have some competition with Disney. Also with Magic Mountain, most of those rides would be very hard to relocate if you are only selling the land. And a number of them are old like Revolution, Goldrusher, Ninja, and Viper, and thus which park would want them?
I'm not saying to make it a full kiddie park, but to at least grab some people away from Disney that might have not thought otherwise. Thomas the Train is a great theme to do that, but they butchered it at all these parks. You can find those type of rides at carnivals (not saying that carnivals are bad, but basically those rides at every park, and a lot of carnivals). There is nothing unique about them except that they have a theme. They are just doing what the old Six Flags did, and it's not really helping. The old Six Flags had a Bugs Bunny land in which nothing was really unique, and the kids still want to go Disney instead.
For Great America, why should the kids even go there (Six Flags) when they had Kiddieland which is a whole lot cheaper for the whole family, and basically the same toddler rides? The Scooby bus and beetles are probably the only rides that Kiddieland doesn't have.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
/\ You bring up a good point, the families with kids that go to SFMM are mainly lower income families from somewhere around Valencia/LA as Six Flags has much cheaper AP's than Disney.
But also now that Disney offers the socal-select on a payment plan the sales of annual passes have exploded and that's not good news for SFMM.
^^ To go with that, SF has under-estimated the power of a dark ride to draw people. At SF STL they have Scooby-Doo shooting dark boat ride and SFOG has Monster Mansion. This spring, at SF STL, the line for the ride was easily the longest all day of any ride at 30 plus minutes. The rides capcity is also fairly good as well.
With Monster Mansion, the line there is beyond insane. It was a 2 plus hour wait when I went in August, making only Goliath with a longer line.
With Thomas Town, I am very interested to see the one being built at SF America. They have said it will be the largest at any of the parks. I think this will truly show what SF can do when given a bunch of money and space to work with.
They only planned on selling Magic Mountain to get a ridiculous amount of money for the land. A ridiculous amount that they thought it was worth and no one else would give them what they thought it was worth. Land over there is a hefty price, so it wasn't so much as selling their "premier park" as some would call it, as it is to economics.
david wrote:Here's whats stupid. Six Flags had every opportunity to sell Magic mountain for more than it's worth, and they chose not to. Why not give every park a treat with a new coaster, or ride?
Hey smart one, Magic Mountain is a MUCH better park then SFGAm could ever hope to be, I really dont think you should be making all these 20 word topics. HAve you ever even been to SFMM? Nope? Thats what i thought.
So are you the authority on which park is better? Coaster wise, yes, SFMM wins, but for overall park experience, SFMM doesn't hold a candle to SFGAm. Besides coasters, SFMM has nothing else going for it.
I finally retired the Sarah Palin signature because she is now 100% irrelevant.
