NCC 2009 - SFGAm portion

[CoasterDude12-2]

Usually in the middle of Summer or Fright Fest when the park is at its height of business, they run three trains on Bull (hell, sometimes even three trains on Demon). Otherwise, they run two and will add a third if the need is there.


SUF only has two trains.

[onyxhotel08]

SUF should have three to help make the loading quicker.

[Ilovthevu']

But the longest wait has either got to be one of three:

V2
Superman Ultimate Flight
Raging Bull

Dark Knight had a longer line most of the year. It was usually around a hour +. Their are many reasons why this happened though. It's the new ride, and the teens thought it might be thrilling enough for them. It's towards the front of the park right next to Superman. They had a new movie called the Dark Knight come out, and this was the Dark Knight roller coaster. For a lot of the year, they didn't have all the cars going which made it much, much longer. Whereas Raging Bull has 1 train at maximum capcity of 36, this ride has 1 train that has maximum capacity of 4.

For overall attendance of the Dark Knight, it could have been higher than a lot of rides. The reason being is that when it's raining with lightning, Dark Knight is open. When it's hot out, people might have said let's go in an air-conditioned line. They also could have said, it's too cold out, so let's go on Dark Knight, and than leave the park.

For Superman, it breaks down quite a bit in my opinion. The loading is probably the slowest of all the roller coasters at the park (The cars are spaced the furtherest apart of any roller coaster at the park.). They can't send two trains on the track at the same time either. The whole ride time is about 1 minute and 40 seconds. They really need on that ride another block if they could get those trains out sooner. It's just too slow.

[onyxhotel08]

They also need to stop letting young kids decide they actually do want to ride and have them go in front of you when it is your turn to ride. This happened to me last November. These kids decided not to go, went on the other side and what do you know right before we were up they had the guys running SUF ask if they could go first. You snooze you lose! Either go when it is your turn or go back to the end of the line! It wastes so much time especially since SUF breaks down at least once or twice on a busy summer or FF day.

[monsterfan99]

But the longest wait has either got to be one of three:

V2
Superman Ultimate Flight
Raging Bull

Dark Knight had a longer line most of the year. It was usually around a hour +. Their are many reasons why this happened though. It's the new ride, and the teens thought it might be thrilling enough for them. It's towards the front of the park right next to Superman. They had a new movie called the Dark Knight come out, and this was the Dark Knight roller coaster. For a lot of the year, they didn't have all the cars going which made it much, much longer. Whereas Raging Bull has 1 train at maximum capcity of 36, this ride has 1 train that has maximum capacity of 4.

For overall attendance of the Dark Knight, it could have been higher than a lot of rides. The reason being is that when it's raining with lightning, Dark Knight is open. When it's hot out, people might have said let's go in an air-conditioned line. They also could have said, it's too cold out, so let's go on Dark Knight, and than leave the park.

For Superman, it breaks down quite a bit in my opinion. The loading is probably the slowest of all the roller coasters at the park (The cars are spaced the furtherest apart of any roller coaster at the park.). They can't send two trains on the track at the same time either. The whole ride time is about 1 minute and 40 seconds. They really need on that ride another block if they could get those trains out sooner. It's just too slow.

Problem is the whole design. If you look at the one at SF Over Georgia, they have 2 stations. Even with those, they decided that adding an 8th row was better then 2 stations. I'm not a fan of the ride anyways, but waiting 5 minutes laying down waiting for the other car to load sucks.

The ride has defiantly turned into a "ride when people from out of tow visit" only ride. Even before the park opens officially the rides and does the rope drop, the line is past the bumper cars on a slow day. There is something against my principle to wait in line for a ride before the ride opens.

[onyxhotel08]

It may seem like the line is gigantic but usually right at opening it moves fairly quickly my first time without a flash pass on it moved fast like 10-15 minutes. It doesn't use up all the queue space just the main lines not the ones that go around. It gets worse during the later part in the day. Worst part is you have a hard time choosing to go on SUF or Bull first as they are kinda far from each other and everyone always runs there first.

[BP317]

I wouldnt say any of the lines move quickley now with the high amount of Flashpasses sold.

[monsterfan99]

I wouldnt say any of the lines move quickley now with the high amount of Flashpasses sold.

Very much an understatement. On one Friday during Fright Fest, I know I had to wait an extra crowd cycle on 3-4 rides due to the stupid Flash pass system. Oh well, at least it's not like Toy Story Mania at Disney Hollywood Studios. The line for using the fast pass tickets is as long as the regular line.

[Ilovthevu']

^^^^I think of why not having 2 stations at our SUF had to do with cost of running both sides. How many employees do you need having both sides running compared to only one? For ours, they went the cheaper route, but look at Magic Mountain with Tatsu.

I think a much easier way of the checking the restraints at least on Superman is for just 1 employee to check multiple rows. How is this faster? It's less walking for each employee, and less time goes bye. I don't necessary agree with the employee that just stands or sits at the controls. Let them at least check one row.

1 employee (sitting by controls) check row 1
So, have one employee check rows 2 & 3.
1 employee check 4 & 5 & 6
1 employee check 7 & 8

All employees must be told to check the rows together. That is a total time waster. Why wait when a person on V2 in row 12 (right side) might have a problem, and than someone in row 14 (left side) has a problem? They both have to stop for the problem that's not even on their own side. You say you might have to push the button to unlock the harness, but why can't the one employee just go to the other side, and push the button.

The more employees walk, the less energy they will have, and the longer it will take. Think about V2. I think the person from the gate has to walk all the way to the back of the train, and than walk back towards the front of the train where the gate is. The faster and confusing way to do it would be the person in the booth at the back of the train comes forward, and the gate person goes towards the back of the train. The gate person than goes to the booth, and the booth person goes to the gate. That would be a lot more effecient in my opinion. V2 is another spread out train like Superman, but I don't think on V2 it would be smart for every employee to check multiple rows like Superman.

[blueviola]

^^ Employees always have to check restraints in pairs and go from front to back. Checking in pairs muct be done for safety reasons. For instance, if the unload side on V2 needs a manual release, the load side needs to be in the same row to recheck, not 3 rows ahead. It may seem more inefficient, but all of these policies are put in place for safety.

[BP317]

Often when I have been at the park RB was running only 2 trains, and rarely did it open with 3 trains to start which made long lines develop far sooner than they should have.

At Disneyland on weekdays right now Big Thunder Mountain and Cali Screamin are running 1 station and Tower of Terror runs 1/2 capacity, the lines are normally 20-30 minutes. If any park is not expecting crowds, theyre going to cut corners to save money. They have investors to answer to and need to maximize their profits, they do cause longer lines to save money but make sure the lines dont get too long because of it. Granted Six Flags is a lot more noticeable but if we're just talking about the amount of trains a ride is running...well there ya go. I guarentee you that if you go to Sea World tomorrow youll see Kraken running 1 train, and it might have a line, but I dont think Sea World is a bad park, its just not crowded right now.

[MForce4ever]

^^^^I think of why not having 2 stations at our SUF had to do with cost of running both sides. How many employees do you need having both sides running compared to only one? For ours, they went the cheaper route, but look at Magic Mountain with Tatsu.

I think a much easier way of the checking the restraints at least on Superman is for just 1 employee to check multiple rows. How is this faster? It's less walking for each employee, and less time goes bye. I don't necessary agree with the employee that just stands or sits at the controls. Let them at least check one row.

1 employee (sitting by controls) check row 1
So, have one employee check rows 2 & 3.
1 employee check 4 & 5 & 6
1 employee check 7 & 8

All employees must be told to check the rows together. That is a total time waster. Why wait when a person on V2 in row 12 (right side) might have a problem, and than someone in row 14 (left side) has a problem? They both have to stop for the problem that's not even on their own side. You say you might have to push the button to unlock the harness, but why can't the one employee just go to the other side, and push the button.

The more employees walk, the less energy they will have, and the longer it will take. Think about V2. I think the person from the gate has to walk all the way to the back of the train, and than walk back towards the front of the train where the gate is. The faster and confusing way to do it would be the person in the booth at the back of the train comes forward, and the gate person goes towards the back of the train. The gate person than goes to the booth, and the booth person goes to the gate. That would be a lot more effecient in my opinion. V2 is another spread out train like Superman, but I don't think on V2 it would be smart for every employee to check multiple rows like Superman.

First of all do you know how often they use the duel loading station on the original SUF? I've ridden it twice over 2 seperate visits and I've never seen it open. As for Tatsu I only rode it once but still never saw the second station open. SF is not going to opt for 3 trains unless it's completely needed. Becides to open the other station you need to have double the crew it takes to run one side.

Secondly you need a minimum of 3 people on the platform to operate SUF. 1 is operator, 1 is at the back of the unload side, 1 is at the back of the load side. The guy on the back of the load side has the enable button, and must give an all clear to the other attendant who then gives his all clear to the operator. The operator can never take they're hand off of the panel while the ride is in motion. So because of this the operator position can never check restraints because even if they were only running one train, the 2 employees at the back end on each side of the station would still be checking all the restraints the restraints. Now if SUF is run with 5 on platform that's when you get smoother operations. 1 operator, 1 front load, 1 front unload, 1 back unload, 1 back load (enable). The 2 in front check the first 4 cars and the 2 in back check the last 4. And it's a good thing the employees have to check together, especially with a ride like SUF. It's an extra safety precaution that SF takes.

Lsstly the V2 idea could work, but it would probablly slow them down more than they already are.

[Ilovthevu']

^I'm talking about when there are 3 people on rides, and the operator checks something. I seen it on Whizzer, Viper, and Batman. They are standing up whereas on Superman the person is sitting down, and it seems like they can't leave. When about any ride has 5 people working, it seems like the operator just stays at their position though. For Batman with 3, the person that operates the ride pulls down and locks the empty harnesses with the seatbelts, and than goes back to their operator position.

I seen some poor operations with them having 4 or 5 people on a crew compared to some that had 3. I'm not saying all 4 or 5 crews are bad, nor am I saying all 3 crews were great, but I just seen some amazing crews that were "understaffed".

Another thing that I think would increase capacity would be height checks like Cedar Point does or Disney at the front of the line. You have the locker people at the front of the lines, and why don't they check people's height too? Also, another thing is have a weight limit sign for riders. If you over a certain weight, you most likely will not fit on this ride. Granted I wouldn't have a scale at the front of the line that a person has to get on, but tell people that if they are over a certain weight, that they most likely won't get on. The reason is because I've seen countless people (especially on V2) not get on the ride, and have to be taken off the ride.

[DejaVu2001]

^ If you notice, Whizzer, Viper, and Batman all have auxillary control panels on the outside of the booth. That is why the operator is sometimes able to check. If the main panel is being used, then the operator has to stay in their spot. Also, no employee is allowed to sit while working unless they have a medical condition that requires it (or they are on Sky Trek).

As for the second point, I agree completely. It is not only about how many employees are there, but also how good they are. I have seen 5 person crews move slower than 2 or 3 person crews.

I have seen some height checks done at the entrances, but they should do more. As for weight limits, that wouldn't be too effective. With getting on rides, it is generally more about where the weight is than how much the total weight is (ie. V2 doesn't accomadate people with big shoulders). V2 definitely should have a test seat though..

[Bob O]

I dont know how DL is running now.

But when I visited WDW in early Dec. the park wasnt super busy and I found all the rides to be fully staffed/running to capacity with wait times not bad at all,except for TSM/Soarin. Granted parks will run to less than capacity on slow days, but when RB starts off with 2 trains in July/August or during FF, that is just BS and done to increase skip in ride sales!! FF/ and July/Aug is busy tuimes for the parks and all rides should be running to capacity unbless mechanical issues prevent it.

[monsterfan99]

^ If you notice, Whizzer, Viper, and Batman all have auxillary control panels on the outside of the booth. That is why the operator is sometimes able to check. If the main panel is being used, then the operator has to stay in their spot. Also, no employee is allowed to sit while working unless they have a medical condition that requires it (or they are on Sky Trek).

As for the second point, I agree completely. It is not only about how many employees are there, but also how good they are. I have seen 5 person crews move slower than 2 or 3 person crews.

I have seen some height checks done at the entrances, but they should do more. As for weight limits, that wouldn't be too effective. With getting on rides, it is generally more about where the weight is than how much the total weight is (ie. V2 doesn't accomadate people with big shoulders). V2 definitely should have a test seat though..

This should basically be done when you are at the turnstile. Just take the 15 seconds for each kid when coming in, give them a wrist band based on height. Saves time for everyone and doesn't lead to kids crying because they stood in line for an hour to find out they are an inch too short. I saw that on Viper during Fright Fest and you heart went out to the parent. They let the kid on another ride of the same height but stopped him there when they made him take off his shoes.

[bobbinbop20]

as long as you have 3 good ops everything should run smoothly theres no need for 5 on a platform they just get in the way, at sfot the most they ever had was 3 on a platform and on titan only 2 trains were running but that didnt slow them down at all they were dispatching trains between 40- 50 seconds i think one time it was even 36 seconds which was amazing you would have to wait at least a minute before the other train made it back to the station. all with only 3 ops, but unfortunetly some ops like to take there slow old time and not do work, the best was on American eagle when 3 ops were standing in the control booth talking to each other and one op was checking restraints. or on Bull when there was 7 ops in the station 4 standing in the corner talking to each other 2 checking restrains and 1 at the control system which is rediculous

[monsterfan99]

as long as you have 3 good ops everything should run smoothly theres no need for 5 on a platform they just get in the way, at sfot the most they ever had was 3 on a platform and on titan only 2 trains were running but that didnt slow them down at all they were dispatching trains between 40- 50 seconds i think one time it was even 36 seconds which was amazing you would have to wait at least a minute before the other train made it back to the station. all with only 3 ops, but unfortunetly some ops like to take there slow old time and not do work, the best was on American eagle when 3 ops were standing in the control booth talking to each other and one op was checking restraints. or on Bull when there was 7 ops in the station 4 standing in the corner talking to each other 2 checking restrains and 1 at the control system which is rediculous

Had an experience like that, but it was at the food stand by V2. 4 employees talking and one working. It lead to an over hour wait for a soda and bees all over the soda fountain. Later the same day, saw the same situation on V2, 3 talking and 2 actually working.

[Ilovthevu']

I dont know how DL is running now.

But when I visited WDW in early Dec. the park wasnt super busy and I found all the rides to be fully staffed/running to capacity with wait times not bad at all,except for TSM/Soarin. Granted parks will run to less than capacity on slow days, but when RB starts off with 2 trains in July/August or during FF, that is just BS and done to increase skip in ride sales!! FF/ and July/Aug is busy tuimes for the parks and all rides should be running to capacity unbless mechanical issues prevent it.

The thing with Disney on almost all of the rides is that have just great capacity. The Snow White ride at Disneyland gets 1014 per hour is just amazing. The Space Mountain on each side at WDW gets 1000-1200. So, that's like 2200 people an hour.

A lot of the flat rides SFGAm has are the rides that completely stop, and that's the difference. SFGAm has rides like Triple Play, bumper cars, Hometown Fun Machine, Big Easy Balloons, East River Crawler, Condor, and so on. Roller coasters get better capacity than most of the flats because when a flat stops at SFGAm, it takes time to load people whereas on a roller coaster you are loading one while another one is going.

Antique cars might have a little better capacity than Ricochet, but they are quite slow, they don't run 2 sides anymore, and they only take 2 people per car, or 1. Ricochet also has 2 people per car or 1, but it has 14 arms on it.

How many Disney rides in general don't stop (Of course, Snow White, Alice in Wonderland, Mr. Toad, and so on stop, but there are so many vehicles on the track.)? Sure, you have a ride like Mission Space that stops, but how many compartments of people can you get on one of them? Not only that, but I found through Wikipedia, they have 4 centrifuges with 40 people each.

I think SFGAm should run 3 trains almost all year on Raging Bull (I would say to not have 3 when the park is really empty like less than 15 minute line). If they are so concerned about high capacity, why not run 3 trains?