The Business of Business at Six Flags

[onyxhotel08]

Eagle needs paint but the same color/ The chippy white is horrible near the entrances/ The park will not paint till 2012 again probably/ And the rides that need it most will still not be next in line

[rct2wizard360]

Yes, because the main focus of their budget isn't paint.

[onyxhotel08]

When they neglect rides like Iron Wolf so they run properly painting every 5 years or so is the least they can do. Buccaneer Battle doesn't cost 10 million.

[monsterfan99]

When they neglect rides like Iron Wolf so they run properly painting every 5 years or so is the least they can do. Buccaneer Battle doesn't cost 10 million.

From everything I've read, Iron Wolf's main problem is the lack of brakes before the corkscrew.

On the paint end, it does nothing. Raging Bull's paint job, I'm willing to bet, was either completely or almost free due to the advertisements about the painters. When you are a park who's owner is 2 billion in debt and there is near 5,000 seat stadium sitting empty most of the year due to no full time show, painting an Arrow looper is not a high priority.

[DejaVu2001]

^ I'm pretty sure Iron Wolf doesn't need brakes. If they thought any of Wolf's problems were caused by going too fast, they would have added trims years ago. Its not like Iron Wolf doesn't have an absolutely perfect spot to add a trim

[Ilovthevu']

If they ever painted Whizzer green and blue, I would puke. Seriously, that would be horrible.

I agree.
My point was that rides need to stick to their theming. Whizzer would look horrible in green and blue. Why don't we just paint Raging Bull electric blue with bright yellow supports, American Eagle with purple track and lime green supports, and the logger's run boats bright orange while we're at it?

btw, If they ever did paint the Whizzer, I would say it should be forest green and brown, since it goes through the trees.

And the Whizzer has a theme? Wow, that's a stretch. They just put it near trees, and a pond. Big deal. Oh, I get it. We are like the grass, and we become one with the grass.

This topic is for us to praise Shapiro, and I don't agree with that. He's still adding a $100 million to all the parks every year, and they have less parks than they used to. On top of that, he's putting in some used rides that are basically free (besides putting them back up). How much money is he saving? Maybe, it's not a $150 million (I don't know what the other guys were doing.), but that's still a lot of money on attractions. Hold back the funds some years. All these parks don't need $100 million.

Think about this: We got Dark Knight last year which was like $7.5 million. We are getting Buccanner Battle which I'm guessing is around $4 million, and than the rumor for next year (I don't know if there will even be a Six Flags next year) is for a Dive Machine. That's a ton of cash in 3 years!

As someone else said, does Magic Mountain need a roller coaster, family area, and another roller coaster in 3 years? All that park should get in my opinion is a dark ride, and some "family" flats.

[onyxhotel08]

110% agree as I said all along park attendance at ANY park, even Magic Mountain, will NOT suffer because something is not added EVERY YEAR. Some parks have pretty cool rides and coasters but they don't exactly pull in audiences. It's the whole package. A pleasant looking park, good customer service, steady prices, well cared for rides that don't hurt people and don't look like they are in danger of chipping to death (Cough...Wolf...cough...Eagle...cough). They claim they are in so much debt yet they still spend so much money on such unnecessary crap that, just like Dark Knight, will probably lose half their popularity after one or two seasons.

[monsterfan99]

110% agree as I said all along park attendance at ANY park, even Magic Mountain, will NOT suffer because something is not added EVERY YEAR. Some parks have pretty cool rides and coasters but they don't exactly pull in audiences. It's the whole package. A pleasant looking park, good customer service, steady prices, well cared for rides that don't hurt people and don't look like they are in danger of chipping to death (Cough...Wolf...cough...Eagle...cough). They claim they are in so much debt yet they still spend so much money on such unnecessary crap that, just like Dark Knight, will probably lose half their popularity after one or two seasons.

Problem is Six Flags built themselves into the current model. They conditioned people into thinking a new ride and coaster every 2-3 years is normal. Some parks in the chain, mainly Kentucky Kingdom and St. Louis, got away from that model for a time.

You must also remember the park is basically an amusement park. It is not like the Orlando parks or Disney where they can rest on themed rides based on entertainment icons they already know. Six Flags has to give the people a reason to come back. Keeping things static for more then a year has a chance to harm them.

[onyxhotel08]

And look where that has got them...Not the best way of thinking...

[monsterfan99]

And look where that has got them...Not the best way of thinking...

I agree with that. Problem is how do you condition you customer away from that without loosing them? Painting rides and scrubs is not the key. The price point is where you have to work from and there is not much room for them to lower ticket prices and season passes.

[onyxhotel08]

I got this article from sfgamzone and even though it is not new I repeat not new I feel this is a good way of putting what I am feeling:


In the Daily Herald business section, they had an article about Six Flags.

Well, what Shapiro said is this: "He is not overly interested in the typical teenage fans of such rides, who were once Six Flags' best customers."

Big rides cost too much money, so just wait for your Dive Machine in 20 years. In my honest opinion, attendance has been good for us, but not so good for the company at our park. They said they are having 3 discounts this year thus far. In July, they have $34.99. In June, buy on $54.99 ticket, and get one free. Starting August 11, they have $29.99.

The spokes lady has said that the park is doing fine. When it's bareable in July at least for me, the park isn't doing that great. The company lost 3% of attendance during the 3 month period.

In Six Flags eyes, it's the big coasters that are hurting the parks. In my opinion, it's the low admission, and season pass prices that are doing it. I also don't think that the park needs a Superman coaster, than get Ragin Cajun plus more, than get a waterpark, get a Tornado, and than get another Dark Knight coaster. That is stupid business. In 7 years, they also tear down a coaster even though the first season, it was only open for less than month.

They didn't want to fork out the money to fix that ride. What's that about every 50 ride, they shut it down? How stupid can you be Six Flags? If it's taking too long to dispatch, you think of ways to fix that. Top Thrill Dragster doesn't take 5 minutes to send out 2 trains! The comparision is that they always have a seatbelt, and a lapbar too.

Also, most 10 year olds can get on Batman, Superman, V2, Iron Wolf, Viper, American Eagle, and Raging Bull while Shapiro believes that these rides are strictly for teenagers.

I would love for these to be broken down more to actually see how many toddlers go to the kids area because they included the 8, 9, 10, and 11 year olds in that category that would probably go on Demon, Condor, Triple Play, and all that stuff instead of in the toddler areas. Two of those years could get on those roller coasters I mentioned.

The 12-17 is the highest percentage of people that come to the park, and that's only a 5 years between unlike the other ones where they stretched out 35-49, or 18-34 years old. Doesn't this also show you that they need a senior citizen price because they only get 4% of those people? A 50 year old is not a senior citizen though, but higher I'm talking about.

50 +: 4%
35-49: 17% (14 years)
18-34: 31% (16 years)
12-17: 26% (5 years)
3-11: 22% (8 years)

The point is that you have to base what you put in based on who comes to the park. You can't make a 12 roller coaster park a toddler park because you just wasted how many millions of dollars on those roller coasters, and they get sold for pennys. You might as well close up shop, and make a new park if you are going to do that.


Maybe this person didn't say everything right but hard to argue with virtually any of it. Any comments?

[monsterfan99]

I got this article from sfgamzone and even though it is not new I repeat not new I feel this is a good way of putting what I am feeling:


In the Daily Herald business section, they had an article about Six Flags.

Well, what Shapiro said is this: "He is not overly interested in the typical teenage fans of such rides, who were once Six Flags' best customers."

Big rides cost too much money, so just wait for your Dive Machine in 20 years. In my honest opinion, attendance has been good for us, but not so good for the company at our park. They said they are having 3 discounts this year thus far. In July, they have $34.99. In June, buy on $54.99 ticket, and get one free. Starting August 11, they have $29.99.

The spokes lady has said that the park is doing fine. When it's bareable in July at least for me, the park isn't doing that great. The company lost 3% of attendance during the 3 month period.

In Six Flags eyes, it's the big coasters that are hurting the parks. In my opinion, it's the low admission, and season pass prices that are doing it. I also don't think that the park needs a Superman coaster, than get Ragin Cajun plus more, than get a waterpark, get a Tornado, and than get another Dark Knight coaster. That is stupid business. In 7 years, they also tear down a coaster even though the first season, it was only open for less than month.

They didn't want to fork out the money to fix that ride. What's that about every 50 ride, they shut it down? How stupid can you be Six Flags? If it's taking too long to dispatch, you think of ways to fix that. Top Thrill Dragster doesn't take 5 minutes to send out 2 trains! The comparision is that they always have a seatbelt, and a lapbar too.

Also, most 10 year olds can get on Batman, Superman, V2, Iron Wolf, Viper, American Eagle, and Raging Bull while Shapiro believes that these rides are strictly for teenagers.

I would love for these to be broken down more to actually see how many toddlers go to the kids area because they included the 8, 9, 10, and 11 year olds in that category that would probably go on Demon, Condor, Triple Play, and all that stuff instead of in the toddler areas. Two of those years could get on those roller coasters I mentioned.

The 12-17 is the highest percentage of people that come to the park, and that's only a 5 years between unlike the other ones where they stretched out 35-49, or 18-34 years old. Doesn't this also show you that they need a senior citizen price because they only get 4% of those people? A 50 year old is not a senior citizen though, but higher I'm talking about.

50 +: 4%
35-49: 17% (14 years)
18-34: 31% (16 years)
12-17: 26% (5 years)
3-11: 22% (8 years)

The point is that you have to base what you put in based on who comes to the park. You can't make a 12 roller coaster park a toddler park because you just wasted how many millions of dollars on those roller coasters, and they get sold for pennys. You might as well close up shop, and make a new park if you are going to do that.


Maybe this person didn't say everything right but hard to argue with virtually any of it. Any comments?

I didn't have a problem with that until the bold part. Do people not get that the 18(I put 18 as I count high school and under as the target) and under crowd is the target. With 18 and under, almost half of that is with those 3-11 according to those percentages. Most kids that age are happy with anything you throw in front of them. Sure, some want to ride the biggest ride there, but other just like a little play area. I see no problem with 22% of paying customer (remember there are kids 1-2 to entertain as well that are not listed) getting 3 areas. On top of that, the three areas take up a grand total of the space of 1 large coaster or 3-5 flat rides. I'm have no idea how a space that small on a property that large can be assumed as "a toddler park" as the post said.

You know, I read post like that and others about kids areas. I really hope that those that feel these are a waste of time have a child one day. Then, tell me if they are worth it when they spend most of their time in the park at those areas. You may say "my kid will go on the big rides" but wait until they see the ride and get scared. It happens all the time and these play areas help the child get used to the park. Once the child is used to the park, they might go on big rides. Six Flags, at least in this case, is no fool. A happy child playing and riding glorified carnival rides is a repeat customer...so are the kid's family.

[onyxhotel08]

2 questions off-topic:

Are they bringing Sunday Night Concerts back this season?

How do they install those lights on STT (cherry picker?)

[RagingBullFan]

Installing the lights isn't terribly difficult on STT, unless it is windy...

First you take the cabin up to the 280 ft level.

Climb out of the cabin from the interior door up the ladder into the tower.

Climb up ladder to the motor deck level inside the tower.

Climb up the ladder out the roof access hatch to the top of the tower.

String lights up the flagpole.

[monsterfan99]

2 questions off-topic:

Are they bringing Sunday Night Concerts back this season?

How do they install those lights on STT (cherry picker?)

Good question on the concerts. A bit random, but what artist played last year?

Thanks

[Ilovthevu']

^What artists?

Natashia Bedingfield
Mario something
Jordan Sparks
I don't remember any of the other people right now. I didn't go to any of them.

[onyxhotel08]

If you don't go to the concerts skip the park those days as last year people have said the park was too crowded and it wasn't worth the lines and lack of breathing space.

[monsterfan99]

If you don't go to the concerts skip the park those days as last year people have said the park was too crowded and it wasn't worth the lines and lack of breathing space.

Makes sense. Might go to one just to do something. Only a 15 minutes drive and might get to ride a coaster or two.

[Ilovthevu']

That is so true. I went one of those days, and the park was packed when previously it wasn't that packed. I hate the fact they have to put it on a Sunday.

[onyxhotel08]

makes more sense Friday/Saturday night but barely anyone works Sunday night who is a fan of the park