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Rumblings about 2008

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby BP317 on November 18th, 2007, 8:12 pm
Re-read my post, sorry I posted too early than did some editing to further prove my point :lol:.
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Postby cycamps on November 18th, 2007, 8:14 pm
Hopefully they maintain TDK though. Look at Disaster Trasport. That was a good indoor ride, but they let it fall apart. Now, it too can't operate in the rain.
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Postby DvuRulz on November 18th, 2007, 11:01 pm
superflybri wrote:^ I wasn't flipping out.. I was just saying, hahah. sorry that it sounded like that. But was not meant to sound like that.


No, its ok. I was just teasin' ya :wink:
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Postby rasslin on November 19th, 2007, 9:44 am
Hello Everyone,

Thanks for all the info!
I do remember the punk rock/pierced and tattoed craze of 1997-2000. And I will say that the park has been getting cleaner, but it's definitely marketing to the lowest common denominator with B-96 holding multicasts. (They broadcast from Hurricane Harbor and several spots in the park--not just at Mardi Gras.) I have a past relationship with Radio Disney and I have no problems with that station being there. It makes more sense to have Hannah Montana songs (as bad as they are.) than "Five Thugs Muggin" or some other garbage blasting through the park. I was almost expecting to see walls set up for a spray paint tagging contest by Rockstar Games. Although I have to admit the Cartoon Network area was a flop. This is also the first time that the Gurnee Police have had to open a virtual sub-station at the park which tells you the clients are trending downward.
I said that certain attractions were down for extended periods of time. Other than the Giant Drop, the Observation Disk was closed almost all the time, and on three separate occasions that I was there, Hurricane Harbor opened late because of mechanical or staffing issues. But worse than all of that was the fact that the staff knew less of what was going on than we did, so there's definitely a communication issue going on there too.
I work in the sports entertainment industry, and Mark Shapiro is well known as a "wunderkind" in the Chicago market from his days at ESPN. I think (and hope) he will eventually turn it into something cool. But I would expect a fairly rough ride until then.
Maybe you all can answer this question; Do the coasters get built and paid for by the movie companies through naming rights? I don't know any other reason why they would develop entire coasters based on B movies. Whatever happened to generic descriptive names like the Tidal Wave?

Thanks All!
Have a great Holiday!
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Postby Director_Guy on November 19th, 2007, 9:51 am
^I'm sorry, are you saying The Dark Knight is a B-movie? And Plan Nine From Outer Space: The Ride would be amazing.
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Postby BP317 on November 19th, 2007, 9:58 am
But worse than all of that was the fact that the staff knew less of what was going on than we did, so there's definitely a communication issue going on there too.

If a ride is down or there is an incident, the staff is instructed to say they have no information on why, and to check back later in the day.
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Postby Tip Top Club on November 19th, 2007, 10:31 am
Aka...The staff knows but won't tell you because of various policies/procedures the park has implimented.

Now I have to say I do agree with most points in this thread. Six Flags Great America is just one leg of the giant business that is Six Flags. Six Flags right now is basically a failing business. I do beleive that in the end our current corporate management team has what it takes to turn it around, but i'm not simply going to blindly go along with whatever they say. Should it turn out to be true, I think it will look terrible if Splash and Shuttle just sit there all year. People will be asking the staff why it's closed and thier answer will basically be "Oh, it's not actually there anymore, it's just that Six Flags was too lazy to take it down" because although i'm sure that's not the case, i'm sure that's what the public will think. Should it turn out to be true, I think that it's a terrible mistake to kill off both our indoor live entertainment venues. As I have said, I will definetely be visiting the park less this year without a lot of shows to keep me entertained. I expected to be spoiled by 2007's entertainment package which was amazing, but to basically gut the department completly is unacceptable in my book.

To clear up the B96 thing, they broadcast out of Mardi Gras everyday, and had remote broadcasts from Hurricane Harbor a few days a week (I want to say thursday, but I honestly don't remember so, if anyone does...)

I definetely agree that food is a problem. I have worked at fast food places before, and Great America's eating establishments make them look like the Ritz. First and foremost the operations of the department need to be fixed, even before you think of tackling the food itself, get people to make those damn food lines shorter, because if you are working at a food place, you don't care enough to really try to go fast. Trust me on that one.

Operation SpyGirl was...a hit or miss. I agree that it could definetely use some work, But on the other hand, I know a lot of the public liked it, because I have friends who are camp counselors and whenever i was there, I would see a few kids wearing SOBAD shirts, and one kid even came up to me one day with that spy gear stuff they were selling. So I really think it needs improvment, but it's geared toward little kids, so I'm not sure how much improvement it's going to get in reality.

I do think that TDK will be a GREAT addition to the park. GREAT! I am really looking forward to riding it! And I'm really hoping that since we're losing a theatre for the line that they spend a crapload on theming! I want to walk through Gotham on the way to this ride, not a gutted theatre. And I would like to re-iterate that I think corporate management has what it takes to turn a profit down the road, But some of the decisions that have been rumored to have been made just don't make sense to me. And should it all turn out to be true, I am already disappointed with the coming season. I HAVE studied the industry, and I think that an Open field (the ex-deja vu spot) across from a perpetually closed ride (splash) will make our guests lose any faith they may have had left in the revitalization of this company.

But that's just one persons opinion... :wink:

Edit: Something I wanted to mention is to tell everyone to get off Shapiro's Back. He is not the sole person making decisions in this company. There are, what, 10 members of the board of directors? Not to mention several corporate departments all making decisions. Not everything that goes wrong in the world is the sole fault of Mark Shapiro.
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Postby Galvan on November 19th, 2007, 1:27 pm
^ There are obviously people who understand things on this site and truly get it.


There there are other people on this site who really dont have a clue.



Excellent Posts!
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Postby cycamps on November 19th, 2007, 7:44 pm
Tip Top Club wrote:Edit: Something I wanted to mention is to tell everyone to get off Shapiro's Back. He is not the sole person making decisions in this company. There are, what, 10 members of the board of directors? Not to mention several corporate departments all making decisions. Not everything that goes wrong in the world is the sole fault of Mark Shapiro.

I'd have to agree with you on that. I've thought that all along...
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Postby rasslin on November 20th, 2007, 12:10 am
Hi,

Sorry. I didn't mean to denegrate The Dark Knight.

I am old and have never heard of it. And when you get old (and crabby) anything you haven't heard of becomes less than "Grade A" thus my mistakenly referring to it as a "B Movie" which as we all know is the new movie by Jerry Seinfeld, which could make for a cool roller coaster. Imagine riding around on a Bee stinging people and landing on cotton candy puffs, etc.!

Plan 9 from outer space I have heard of, but have never seen. So I'll take your word for it on it's value as a theme coaster. :oops: :oops:
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Postby jmcoaster on November 20th, 2007, 6:51 pm
I'm really not looking forward to the Dark Knight coaster. Dark ride + Six Flags = bad idea. Sure everything may work at first (even if it is poorly themed) but lets face it, Six Flags cannot keep up on their maintanance. Halfway through the year some effects will be shut down and it will turn out to be just a half-assed coaster.

And I love how some people use excuses like "Great America is just part of a giant business". Look at Disney. Their parks have been wildly succsesful. Even Cedar Fair or the former Paramount parks have been decently managed. What these parks have that Six Flags doesn't is quality. Sure the quantity might be there but quality? Sure, you've got coasters but what else? Bad parades? Horrible dining? Like 2 shows?

Six Flags trying to theme is like fat kids trying to loose weight. Can it be done? Sure. But the amount of effort that would need to be put in to it would be exceedingly high. And for what? An underwhelming job?

Six Flags is in a dark age right now. And by the looks of it, its not getting out any time soon.
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Postby Danhockey04 on November 20th, 2007, 7:28 pm
/\ HAHA! You're trying to say that CF has quality, just look at CP, that is pure quantity with very little quality and horrible maintenance. The maintenance at SFGAm is very good and has been throughout the year.s
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Postby BP317 on November 20th, 2007, 7:34 pm
Even Cedar Fair or the former Paramount parks have been decently managed. What these parks have that Six Flags doesn't is quality. Sure the quantity might be there but quality? Sure, you've got coasters but what else? Bad parades? Horrible dining? Like 2 shows?

Are you saying SFGAm's quality is worse than Cedar Fair's quality? All I have to say to that is

:lol:

From the Cedar Fair parks ive been to (Valleyfair, GL, CP, KI) it was very clear that CP is the only park Dick Kinzel cares about, GL was a decent park but you could clearly tell just by walking around there CF diminished anything that park may have had going for it, and Valleyfair was run like crap and wasnt anything special, and knowing what Cedar Fair did to Knotts doesnt help their cause either. I really liked Kings Island but thats definitley not because of CF. On the other hand SFGAm is ran well, clean, has better entertainment than any CF park, well themed and well landscaped.

CF parks have been going downhill in recent years and Six Flags has been going up.
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Postby rasslin on November 20th, 2007, 9:03 pm
As someone who isn't too thrilled with the current direction of operations and marketing at Great America (Gurnee) I worked at Circus Circus in Las Vegas when they opened their park and that was the most boring (and dirty) indoor park I have ever been in. And when I say indoor park, I don't mean like Old Chicago (for those of you old enough to remember that place, or as old as I am and able to remember Riverview Park in Chicago.) Circus Circus indoor park was/is a pink glass bubble with a small and boring rollercoater in it. And the place smelled like a subway tunnel.
I lived across the street from MGM's outdoor amusement park (when Vegas decided to market to families--bad idea.) it lasted fifteen seconds and nothing was ever operating. (Having maintenance people who are used to working on slot machines fixing roller coasters is an idea right up there with the Vegas for families idea.)
So all and all, Six Flags has some problems sure, but it's still the best of my (humble) amusement park experiences.
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Postby jmcoaster on November 20th, 2007, 11:40 pm
I havent been following coasters very closely ever since I found something productice to do and back when I was a huge enthusiest, Cedar Fair ran its parks very nicely. But its not good to hear they have been going down hill.

But I still stand by Cedar Point having more quality AND quantity than Great America.

Yes Great America is one of the better six flags parks, but thats like picking the used camry in a line of new ford tauruses.
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Postby Tip Top Club on November 21st, 2007, 12:04 am
jmcoaster wrote:And I love how some people use excuses like "Great America is just part of a giant business". Look at Disney. Their parks have been wildly succsesful. Even Cedar Fair or the former Paramount parks have been decently managed. What these parks have that Six Flags doesn't is quality. Sure the quantity might be there but quality? Sure, you've got coasters but what else? Bad parades? Horrible dining? Like 2 shows?


Disney has money. Six Flags Doesn't. That is because for several years they greedily bought parks, and installed giant roller coasters, and nobody spent money on it so they lost all their money, and then did the same thing next year...smart right? Ceder Fair is probably worse off than Six Flags right now, although I give them credit for realizing that it probably wasn't a good idea to purchase so many parks so quickly, and the old six flags managers never quite got that idea to click.

The day parade this year was terrible. I'm the first one to admit that, it was, hopefully, a failed experiment. They were originally going to spend money on it and then they chickened out, or lost the budget or whatever. So they tried to sell it like it was supposed to be that way, which didn't work. IF there is an afternoon parade next year, and I stress the IF because who's going to staff it without live entertainment should that be true, than I hope it's not the same as this year.

As for night parade, I ended every night by watching it, I loved it. No it wasn't Fantasmic, Wishes, and Spectromagic combined, but for the money that was spent on it (virutally nothing except to pay the performers) it was good.

We had 14 GREAT shows this summer (counting the various streetmosphere bands and whatnot as one) and 9 GREAT shows for Fright Fest.

I'd specifically like to point out Show Stoppin', Love at First Fright, Dead Man's Party, Bugs Bunny's Starlight Spectacular, and the two pop-up shows.

So at least know your facts before you start making wild accusations.
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Postby chifire422 on November 21st, 2007, 7:51 pm
Have / when do they start building the new coaster at great america? Also, can anyone get any pics of the ride?
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Postby viperchick85 on November 21st, 2007, 11:06 pm
Here's an idea: I hope Disney buys Great America.

I have been going to Great America since 1987. And as far as I can see if things keep going the way they have been going, it is going to look like every other cookie cutter theme park in America. The loss of the theater isn't just about the live entertainment, its about history. Keep what they have left of the original...I could care less about smoking and kid friendliness...I'm going to go there to ride some rides, watch some shows, eat some food from my cooler, have a beer in hurricane harbor while watching the kiddies on the waterslides. Oh and what about my 65 year old granny who goes with because she doesn't want to be alone all day while we're at a theme park? Well she used to enjoy the live entertainment, but such is life I suppose, everything is going to be one giant brand name. Sorry granny.

But seriously, I think they are making a big mistake. Take out some other area of the park, take out Rajin Cajun....that ride was fun but altogether disappointing and pointless. And don't get me started on Jester's wild ride...I could probably have more fun jumping off a bridge and not pay $50 for it.

Keep up the good work Shapiro.
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Postby cycamps on November 22nd, 2007, 12:15 am
^Remeber, it's not all his fault, it is a corporation.
Also, I don't understand why some people bash Cedar Fair. The parks of theirs that I have gone to seem just fine. The atmosphere is great in my opinion. But I still think Six Flags parks are good too...
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Postby BP317 on November 22nd, 2007, 1:32 am
Well she used to enjoy the live entertainment, but such is life I suppose, everything is going to be one giant brand name. Sorry granny.

I would once again like to remind everyone that it is just a RUMOR that GMH will not be a live show. Rumors have no validity until their confirmed, which I highly doubt this will be. The shows in Theatre Royale were made for kids not grandparents, so I dont think she'll mind too much.

And don't get me started on Jester's wild ride...I could probably have more fun jumping off a bridge and not pay $50 for it.

Most people that ride Jesters Wild Ride are between ages 2-5, and you havent been around the ride enough to see their faces glow when they ride it.

We're forgetting that Theatre Royale is being removed for an extensively themed DARK RIDE / COASTER. Something we can all agree the park has needed for a long time. I doubt anyone on here ever saw the shows in Theatre Royale (more than once just to see it) and I think once you ride Dark Knight that you will ride it again. Get some common sense.

I'm sorry Viperchick the world doesnt revolve around you. I think most people in the world would rather have a well themed hybrid dark ride/coaster than Bugs Bunny Tonight.

Have / when do they start building the new coaster at great america? Also, can anyone get any pics of the ride?

They started construction during FF, you could see it if you went on SUF (or just walked through SUFs exit path). Im sure their further along by now.

Someone brought up earlier why dont they build DK in DejaVu's spot? Hmm, maybe because something else is being built in DejaVu/SWF's spot. Think long term, 08 is not the end of the earth.

And I love how some people use excuses like "Great America is just part of a giant business". Look at Disney. Their parks have been wildly succsesful. Even Cedar Fair or the former Paramount parks have been decently managed. What these parks have that Six Flags doesn't is quality. Sure the quantity might be there but quality? Sure, you've got coasters but what else? Bad parades? Horrible dining? Like 2 shows?

Six Flags Great America was highly profitable/successful in 2007 (SIX didnt make money, SFGAm did). SFGAm's parade won an award, 2 of SFGAm's shows won awards at IAAPA, dinning: well you might be right about that, and there was definitley more than 2 shows (more shows than any other park I can think of)....where at Cedar Fair parks you have no parades, bad dining, and like 2 shows.

Last time I was at CP (July 07) they were having way more apparent staffing budget cuts than SFGAm, a lot of their major coasters opened late (including MF and Maverick)/took forever to fix small problems during the day due to not nearly as much maintenence personell as they needed; if I were to type out a TR you wouldnt believe it. If CF prepared and budgeted properly to quickley fix a lot of the problems the rides were having as well as budgeting time & supplies to clean out a lot of areas that were in desperate need of it. But they dont, its too bad your precious Cedar Fair isnt that comitted to quality.

I agree some things need to be improved about SFGAm but i'm just trying to point out that some of you need to think about common sense before saying things like "Cedar Fair has better parks because they have better entertainment and parades," are you kidding me? I've explained all this like 10x, is anybody even reading my posts?
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Postby viperchick85 on November 22nd, 2007, 9:46 am
Really? The world doesn't revolve around me?

Thats shocking.

I have given that place a lot of my money...so to an extent, I am an investor and I should have a say in what they're doing. And also they shouldn't forget older people can and do visit the park, and are also part of the family demographic.
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Postby T.K. on November 22nd, 2007, 12:03 pm
You have given nothing comparing to what Six Flags Great America makes, therefore you have a very little influance on the park. SFGAm07 is right, I could have not said it btter.
TDK, The Dark Knight Coaster- I bet all of you will ride it, no matter what you say now. As we all know Theater is being closed for the queue and the subway station (load\unload platforms). TDK will be a totally awesome and unique experiance. The Dark Knight will use all these lights, motions, and TV screens to tell a story. TDK style will be a style that u have never seen in any Six Flags park ever. The style from entering the the queue till exiting the TDK exit path. There is a park that does this to most rides.... ands it's not a little one. You will experiance TDK while waiting in line. You guys will really like this ride. You will see soon.
Six Flags Ameirca as the number 1 park at SFI.... this is JOKE!
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Postby batcave on November 22nd, 2007, 1:13 pm
viperchick85 wrote:Here's an idea: I hope Disney buys Great America.



GOD NO!!! PLEASE NO, NEVER!!!! I would never return to SFGAm.
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Postby Tip Top Club on November 22nd, 2007, 3:23 pm
WHOA! Stop right there sfgam 07 and TK.

Shapiro is trying to make his parks appealing to everyone yes? Can you combat that point? Is there anyone here who can deny the fact that SFI is trying to make their parks appealing to everyone? A Family. Viperchick seems to me like maybe she's in her twenties, she brings her grandmother, and there's kids on the waterslide. If this rumor turns out to be true, then they have alienated her grandmother, making the day completly boring for her if all she did was watch the live entertainment.

Now don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to TDK as I have stated many times. But I will also be disappointed to have very little live entertainment this season should this rumor turn out to be true.

And TK, you have no idea what TDK's queue will be like, let alone the ride experiance. You have no clue how six flags is going to put this together. So how can you know who will and will not like the ride, oh yeah, you don't.

And as long as we don't get a clone of small world, let disney buy SFGAm, we'd finally get some real guest service.
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Postby viperchick85 on November 22nd, 2007, 4:16 pm
You hit it right on the head, I can't tell you guys how many elderly people that go and enjoy spending time with their families. That group of people really don't have much to do at GA as it is but taking out the shows would make going completely useless. And what about the babies or the smaller kids who are afraid of rides or not big enough to ride? My point was why couldn't they find somewhere else to put it? Its not a hard concept to grasp...

Secondly...so what you're saying is, since I don't have stock invested in the company I have no say as a consumer? Without their customers they would be nothing. I am a paying customer so my opinion does count.
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