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Turning the Page - Six Flags out of Bankruptcy

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby wishman35 on April 30th, 2010, 1:53 pm
Galvan316 wrote:^

A good feel to them? Seriously your going to say that the CF parks have a good feel to them.

Obviously you've never been to Dorney Park, Michigan's Adventure or Cedar Point before, because if you did, you'd never say these parks have "a good feel to them".

The only "feel" these parks have is the feel of a concrete jungle.



I certainly have and Cedar Point does have a feel to it in my opinion. First of all, they play real music from real artists that are not coming to play at the park. They play The Who, Boston...just good variety. Its nice not to hear Rascal Flatts, the Jonas Brothers, or one of the many horrible small acts coming though the summer concert series.

2nd of all... Great America has nothing like the Frontier Path at Cedar Point. That whole area is vintage and awesome. And to top it off at night they have the Starlight Experience which in my opinion was one of the best memories I could have at a theme park walking through with my girlfriend. The lights changed at each section and the music was perfect. Fake snow in the winter section, huge floats, and 3D lighting.

3rd... they have at least 5x's the number of shows available, and they have the huge Hot Summer Lights show on the midway at night with pyrotechnics, flaming water, and awesome music. There are tons of people there just having a good time.....I don't think a small glow in the dark parade can really match it.

Speaking of midway, does Great America even have one really? At least at Cedar Point that they have a long strip with the Sky Ride, Games, Shops, Food, and vintage rides lined up along it.

I also think I prefer riding Wicked Twister at CP when I am hanging over the beach, instead of a murky pond. Or Millennium Force where I feel like I am hanging off of the edge and will fall into Lake Erie.

And to top it off, I can stroll along the boardwalk and walk on the beach at summer and watch Magnum over and over again, or watch the lights of the Ferris Wheel.

I don't know what you expect, and maybe because they don't have tacky New Orleans cajun theming packaged with Justice League characters running around... it isn't good ... but personally I think it is great, and I know other people feel the same way.
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Postby Necropolis on May 1st, 2010, 1:14 pm
Phenomenal speech there Mr. Shapiro. I am optimistic for the future of Six Flags. I am hoping my SFGAM gets some new changes. I liked this years changes/additions to the park as well. Hooray for Six Flags. I'm glad to hear everyone working together to strive for a better future and better parks for the customer. Thanks again Mr. Shapiro. Thumbs Up! :D 8) :P :!:
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Postby Binks Drake on May 1st, 2010, 11:15 pm
Regardless of your feelings of any of Six Flags Nighttime entertainment, Hot Summer Lights and the Starlight Experiance are two of the worst excuses for nighttime shows I've ever seen.
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Postby Galvan317 on May 2nd, 2010, 5:51 pm
In my opinion Kings Island and Cedar Point are great parks but the rest of their parks blow major a**. Take a park like Valleyfair for example, feels like it hasnt been touched since the 70's except for adding a few coasters. Ive been to a lot of Cedar Fair parks and except for KI and CP I get the same bland experience at all of their parks, most of them are just credit stops with absolutely nothing special about the parks as they all look exactly the same.
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Postby Jcoaster95 on May 2nd, 2010, 9:28 pm
^Worlds of Fun is a great park.
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Postby onyxhotel08 on May 2nd, 2010, 9:30 pm
FINALLY after today's trip I do see what some have said in the past. We DO have a great coaster and flat line up. We do need improvements still but I do see the changes being made and see where it is being executed. I will for one never accept the food/gift shops the chain provides. Food is pricey and not even that great (yeah Papa John's!). Gift shops are over priced on stuff you can usually get for half price at like Target. A Batman plush toy for $34.99? Please. Very few of the items I do see appear to have any value to them or make me want to get them right then and there.

Six Flags needs to look at what drives people inside is not just the cheap admission passes. It is the food and what you can get to remember your day. Nothing but candy/t-shirts and mugs dominate most shops. The plush toys are cute but majority of them you can find somehwere else and save a ton. And you dont have to get a locker to store them. Or force someone to hold them/put them in the car.

One more thing. The Karate Kid ads are not nearly as invasive as everyone said they were.
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Postby RagingBullFan on May 2nd, 2010, 10:30 pm
This is sure to make things 'interesting'...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02502.html

Dan Snyder is no longer on the Six Flags BoD.
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Postby onyxhotel08 on May 2nd, 2010, 10:55 pm
No surprise here. And no big loss.
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Postby david on May 2nd, 2010, 11:23 pm
Did I hear wrong or is he not a complete control freak? I don't remember where I heard that, but I did.

Anyways, this really shouldn't affect much at the company. Or does this mean Red Zone no longer owns the company? I'm confused.
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Postby w00dland on May 3rd, 2010, 12:26 pm
Jcoaster95 wrote:^Worlds of Fun is a great park.


I'm not sure that is true at all. I had a terrible day at WoF. I'll agree that Valleyfair really looks like it did in 1980. Kings Dominion and Carowinds were nice parks though.

As for Dan Snyder, good. That guy is a dick. Ask any Washington Redskins fan that can't bring any signage to their home games because Snyder doesn't want any signs that make fun of him. :lol:
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Postby Galvan on May 3rd, 2010, 12:34 pm
^
Just for the record, Snyder(im not defending him) only threatened to end the ban on signage, or if it was in place, it was only for one game.

Got to hand it too Snyder though, guy is a bizillionare and treats fans of his team that garbage, but people keep flocking to see the Redskins.
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Postby Coaster Justin on May 3rd, 2010, 2:56 pm
Dan Snyder was the Person who Bought Johnny Rockets, Coaster Cuts, and Dick Clark.

None of those have been Good Purchases in my opinion by any Stretch


Hopefully Shapiro can start adding Lodging Properties to more Parks. (Notice how I Said Parks, not Just SFGAm but Great ADVENTURE, AMERICA in Maryland, and Six Flags St Louis.)

And also, hopefully Six Flags can start adding Solar Panels and Wind Fans to their Properties. (I Can Dream, Can't I.)
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Postby Galvan on May 3rd, 2010, 3:18 pm
^
Seriously, can you just drop the solar panels, and whatever..... Its not going to happen, PLEASE... First the S&S Swings for every park everywhere, now its solar panels and wind mills.
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Postby monsterfan99 on May 3rd, 2010, 4:13 pm
I can imagine a VIP guide saying this "Over here is our County Fair section that was over taken by the Dutch as you can see the windmills they put in."
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Postby Coaster Justin on May 3rd, 2010, 4:19 pm
Attacking Me, Why am I Not Surprised.


Are you telling me we can't have solar Panels on the Dark Knight building, Grand Music Hall Building?


And I'm talking about wind Fans around Park Perimeters.
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Postby FParker185 on May 3rd, 2010, 5:02 pm
What purpose would they serve? Park gets more than enough reliable power from ComEd without spending millions on alternative energy sources that would never pay themselves off on such a small scale. Also it takes more energy to produce a solar panel than the panel is capable of generating in it's useful life, also Solar Panel production creates more waste than burning coal, after you account for the mining of the materials and all the acids needed in their production.
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Postby Coaster Justin on May 3rd, 2010, 5:23 pm
Be Careful with your words that Six Flags Won't add Solar Panels.
It helps to site News Articles for Proof.


http://www.ecoseed.org/en/general-green ... iving/3026

June 24, 2009

Six Flags, Inc. announced that it would take a company-wide green initiative to reduce electricity, fuel use, and waste in its theme parks and water parks while lessening the environmental impact on the watersheds and ecosystems across the locations.

The company has already implemented several innovative efforts to improve the energy performance of park operations. Used vegetable oil generated from Six Flag kitchens will be used as an alternative to diesel fuel to power all vehicles and trains. LED lamps and lights will also be put up throughout each park to obtain additional proactive savings in energy consumption that would lead to the reduction of the indirect greenhouse gas emissions from electricity usage.

Six Flags installed low-flow, high-efficiency water fixtures throughout the parks, and purchased fuel-efficient vehicles to replace the older models. Water-saving plants and groundcover were also used at all parks.

The company has also established an extensive recycling program by collaborating with its corporate partner Coca Cola to place over 3,000 recycle bins in all Six Flags parks. Paper recycling programs were also implemented at the parks.

Six Flags is also evaluating its options to invest in solar energy. The company would be able to create solar panel farms on the existing available land that surround a number of Six Flag parks. These solar farms would then supply the parks with clean energy and reduce the amount of electricity purchased.

Six Flags, Inc. is the largest regional theme park company in the world, with 20 parks across the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The company’s headquarters is located in New York City.


I Know this was in 2009, Things have Changed right? Wrong.

http://www.sixflags.com/greatAdventure/ ... ation.aspx


And I know, Six Flags can't add solar panels, they don't have the Attendance of Dollywood
http://www.electric.seviervilletn.org/P ... nPower.htm



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Postby Ilovthevu' on May 3rd, 2010, 5:36 pm
onyxhotel08 wrote:2.7 billion down to 1 billion is a HUGE cause for celebration. Wasn't Kingda Ka their last major addition? And that was what like 6 years ago?


It's still not that great when you barely are over positive, but I don't think last year they were in the black. No, Kingda Ka wasn't the last major investment. Tatsu was their last 20 million dollar ride. What I can't understand is why for the tv's do they advertise Kingda Ka as the Six Flags tv. Yes, it is appealing to look at, but that ride has had a bunch of trouble. Tatsu would be a spokes ride for the chain.

I quite frankly don't think the guy knows what he's doing. For instance, in the Looney Tunes area, they take out the Beetles that go around, and around in a circle. And yes, it's for a reason (The Little Dipper. Yes, I understand, but stick with me for a second.), but why would they not move the Beetles instead of the Bumblee Bees, or the Helicopters? They have 3 of the same type of ride (3 toddler rides that have a control thing that makes them go up and down - 1 in Wiggles World, plus the Bees, and the Helicopters (WHY??), but only 1 Beetle type of ride which they took out. Is this company stupid, or did they just not want to move the Beetle ride to where the Bee ride is or the Helicopter ride is - What, it would cost another $50 to move it instead of having the same type of ride in 3 places?

I have seen just too many bad changes. The guy doesn't care about advertising flats and taken a ton out, out of all the parks, big open space in County Fair, he admitted he can't make a dark ride at Magic Mountain because I guess he can't figure out how to make plastic statues??? - He says Disney's dark rides are better - I guess he can't figure out how Snow White, Peter Pan, or plastic statues in Pinocchio are done??, and he hasn't figured out about charging more for season passes, and not to mention in my opinion a lot of his "new" rides are just redo rides, and mouse coasters. The guy just has no clue what's he doing. The shows in the Pictorium are a joke, and what this is the third time he's changing the areas for the characters?

Also, how many times has the park changed the Whirligig lights in the past few years under Shapiro's. One year, they are orange, and yellow, than I think they were green and yellow (It's always been red, and white on the bottom I believe), and now I think they are blue even though I haven't seen them lit up. What was so wrong with Red, White, and Blue lights? Than, they have the hills to HIDE the park going the highway. What's with that? Why not put a tarp so no one can see the park going on the highway. That would be better for business you know? I'm still going to go to the park, but the guy just has no clue what he's doing. All the guy knows is marketing, and advertising.
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Postby DejaVu2001 on May 3rd, 2010, 5:54 pm
Ilovthevu' wrote:Is this company stupid, or did they just not want to move the Beetle ride to where the Bee ride is or the Helicopter ride is - What, it would cost another $50 to move it instead of having the same type of ride in 3 places?

Really? 50 dollars, do you have ANY concept of how much anything costs? :roll:
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Postby monsterfan99 on May 3rd, 2010, 6:28 pm
Coaster Justin wrote:Attacking Me, Why am I Not Surprised.


Are you telling me we can't have solar Panels on the Dark Knight building, Grand Music Hall Building?


And I'm talking about wind Fans around Park Perimeters.

Disney has the roof of the Universe of Energy covered with solar panels. At their best they provide 1/3 of the energy of that attraction. With the cost of a small panel that powers maybe a room costing over $20,000 the chain can not afford it.

Wind mills, while a great long term investment, but an awful short term investment. Part of the long term planning at Eastern IL University was to add a wind mill. The recovery of investment time was over 20 years.
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Postby Galvan on May 3rd, 2010, 6:53 pm
Coaster Justin wrote:Be Careful with your words that Six Flags Won't add Solar Panels.
It helps to site News Articles for Proof


Please don't make me get more links. Thank you.



All you have to do is re-read the title of this thread to understand why They are not going to invest the money on Solar/Wind panels and how "things have changed" according to you.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-03/six-flags-exits-bankruptcy-after-cutting-debt-update1-.html Six Flags announces Bankruptcy

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=367677 Six Flags files for bankruptcy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/14/six-flags-nearing-bankrup_n_174954.html Six Flags nearing a filing for Bankruptcy


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Postby Viper 88 on May 3rd, 2010, 7:57 pm
monsterfan99 wrote:
w00dland wrote:This plan really only prolongs the inevitable unless Six Flags can actually start making some money, which means not giving away the gate. Something they have always done and they need to stop.

This is what bothers me. What does the chain do once new streams of ad revenues dry up? With season passes (with parking) costing as low as $50 combine for some people (mine was $55) you can not stay in business.


When you combine this with other things... Flash Pass, Food, Merchandise, Sheer numbers of Pass Holders, and General Admission from the Gate it all adds up rather quickly not to mention the same for all the other parks. I think problems occured through mismanagement, and possible bad decisions, but i do think that they are on their way back to the top. shaving off that much debt is truly great for the park, but yes it does come at a loss but to make money you have to spend some. If they wanted to truly be back on top they should try to do the things Marriott tried to do for the park.
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Postby Coaster Justin on May 3rd, 2010, 8:13 pm
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Postby rct2wizard360 on May 3rd, 2010, 10:18 pm
Coaster Justin wrote:Like pointless contributions to the topic regarding commercials showing how much the park has changed since the days of Marriot??? Gosh, I Hope


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_O2pqKo ... re=related

2009- SFOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4auC4-1XNQ


That's about all I got from that.

This always turns into a Mark Shaprio hate discussion each time the state of the company comes up. Granted, the park is a giant billboard and all, but let's all just bite our tongues and deal with it. Shapiro is trying a lot harder than the previous gang in charge. He's at least cut the spending on the huge mega machines (unlike Cedar Fair, with two new $25,000,000+ projects for this season) and trying to add more family friendly things. Even if it is Magiquest or TDK, you have to at least give him credit for trying.

Ilovthevu' wrote:he admitted he can't make a dark ride at Magic Mountain because I guess he can't figure out how to make plastic statues??? - He says Disney's dark rides are better - I guess he can't figure out how Snow White, Peter Pan, or plastic statues in Pinocchio are done??


This is such an ignorant statement.
You act like the Dark Rides of Disney are some overnight project that come pre-assembled, and you simply snap two pieces together and boom. You have a classic ride that will entertain generations upon generations. Those rides probably cost twice that of a parking lot coaster of Six Flags. They aren't just some "plastic figures", and quite frankly, I don't think kids are all that amused with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck anymore, much less know who they are. Dark Rides based on popular movies obviously don't work at all (contradicting my previous claim? No, Snow White etc etc are all timeless classics that are indeed passed down from generation to generation, The Dark Knight and Heath Ledger are not) Even Universal has ridded of Twister and King Kong now. A good dark ride is an extremely large investment, one that Six Flags cannot afford and probably couldn't pull off.

Turning around from this much debt doesn't happen over night people. GIVE IT TIME!
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Postby monsterfan99 on May 3rd, 2010, 10:46 pm
^The line on Monster Mansion at SFOG and Scooby-Doo at SF STL show that the chain can do amazing dark rides that the public loves. With Monster Mansion, the entire ride was redone for 2009 with a new merchandise building showing it's history. They are selling plush figures, shirts, hats, CD soundtracks and more for the ride. Every time I was in or by the store, there was a line to buy items for the ride. They are missing someone huge with this.

You don't have to do Disney level (and cost) to put out a great dark ride. Look at the one at LEGO Discovery Center in Schaumburg. The cost on the ride is small, but they did a great job with it. A ride of that size and scope would be perfect for every Six Flags park. Yet the chain spends money on refurbishing top ranked coasters, turning wood coasters into steal ones for $10 million plus and adding small children only sections (which granted, some parks need.) This idea that Shapiro is marking to families is more of marketing to pre-5 age range, not the entire family.

At the end of the day, what is/has the company been doing differently in the last 5 years to create more income? They have added ads, lockers and Flash Pass levels. That's great, but what happens when you have sold all the add space and income tops out? Those new revue streams do not fix the core problem at many Six Flags parks: In park spending on food and merchandise. The 2008 & 2009 years, revenue wise, were flukes due to how awful the economy was. Lets see how the chain does when people have money to spend to other vacation and recreational activities.
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