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New CEO Big MOve - Pass & Membership Restructuring

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby Jodon on September 30th, 2022, 10:03 am
Is this the 4th or 5th different iteration of season passes/memberships/annual passes in the last 13 months?

What a cluster! Really getting the feeling that the SF leadership is just throwing a bunch of ideas at the consumers and hoping one works. To me, the easiest solution was to maintain a similar structure to what was there when the new leadership took over, but gradually increase pricing to be more consistent with competitors (i.e. Cedar Fair). Seemed obvious to me at the time and maybe SF corporate is coming to the same conclusion. However, the frequent change in pass structure cannot instill a lot of confidence in Corporate from the employees to the consumers.

Thinking back to the Reed-Anderson days, yes, the parks were overcrowded, but the biggest issue of that era, to me, was the small annual additions to every park instead of allowing for larger capital investments (i.e. larger rides with high throughput). The new leadership can fix most of the current issues by slowly raising prices to the existing pass structure while focusing a year or two on beautification of the parks while slowly rolling out large capital investments at a few parks.

I guess it's crazy to me to see the difference between Cedar Fair and Six Flags over the past 20 years. Cedar Fair, while not perfect, seems to have a functioning business model that should be fairly easy to replicate, but Six Flags didn't and now is going to struggle to get out of that hole.
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Postby Sven18 on September 30th, 2022, 2:53 pm
Great America has the new 2023 Passes on the site. Gold $65, Platinum $90, Diamond $250
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Postby SFGAM__man on October 1st, 2022, 2:10 am
I think this new pass structure makes much more sense and prices are in line with what most people would expect for what they are getting.

They are going with a pretty common strategy in pricing: make it so most everybody buys the middle tier but offer alternatives for the statistical outliers to pickup those extra dollars. Very few people will buy the lower tier since it doesn't include Fright Fest or Hurricane Harbor, but you may get a few people who just want to take their kids to the park maybe twice during the season. Then there is the middle which is the one that is best for the vast majority of people, then there is the one that's way more expensive that rich people will buy without thinking about it just because it's the most expensive. It really sucks for enthusiasts that the other SF parks are only included in the most expensive one.
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Postby Sven18 on October 1st, 2022, 11:51 am
Yes, they are going to a Cedar Fair structure., which puts a premium of around $125 to $150 for all park access. Something I have advocated for years. I still think many SF long term patron are not going to like having to pay $250, if they want to go to any park except their home park. The most recent annual membership they could get all park access for $155, which people were complaining over.

If pass sales were going well SF would not change again after changing 2 months ago. Q3 ended yesterday, the fact this rolled out just as Q3 ended hints at poor sales during August/Sept which is usually a large sales period for the next year. of course they were not helped with no new attraction announcements. SF is lagging its peers massively all year on financial reports & the stock price is getting hit way harder than SF or SEAS in an all around down market. SF closed at $17.70/share, down 58% year to date, Cedar Fair is down 19% & SEAS 29%.
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Postby Sven18 on October 4th, 2022, 9:13 am
SFGAm & other parks have changed graphics on the 2023 passes showing the current price is a sale for the 2 lower passes. SF trying to create urgency to drive sales. Prices supposedly good till Oct 10th

SF Corporate also has essentially created park pricing groupings for Gold, Platinum, Diamond.
SFMM is the flagship priced at $80(normal price $100), $100(normal price $120), $250
GAM, GAdv, DK, FT, OG, OT , NE priced at $65(normal price $80), $90(normal price $100), $250
Stl, America, Escape, FC priced at $55(normal price $60), $75(normal price $80), $225
Last edited by Sven18 on October 4th, 2022, 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jodon on October 4th, 2022, 9:42 am
RIP Six Flags Annual Passes
(8/22/2022-9/29/2022)
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on October 6th, 2022, 10:26 am
So is NOW the "Best Time to Buy" or will we see even cheaper or better offerings, lol??
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Postby ilrider on October 6th, 2022, 12:48 pm
^I’m holding out and buying in the spring. Might work out, might not, but I am in no rush to give them my $ for next year with all these changes.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on October 9th, 2022, 5:16 pm
I think the $90 price for the Platinum pass is very reasonable. My only complaint is that stupid "processing fee" which is pure profit! Does anyone know if you can buy these passes at the Guest Services window at the park?
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Postby staticshadows on December 21st, 2022, 1:37 pm
Land and Buildings Investment Management's proposal to sell or spin off Six Flags real estate.

Image

Full presentation:
https://landandbuildings.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/LandB-Six-Flags-SIX-%E2%80%94-Thrilling-Real-Estate-Value.pdf
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Postby Sven18 on December 21st, 2022, 7:43 pm
You beat me to it....Lol
This is not a great idea long term despite the well laid out presentation of SF's issues, failures & likely long struggle 3+ years or more to return to 2019 levels. This is an immediate cash infusion, which could allow them to pay down debt or reinstate dividend & give a relative short term(6-12 mth) pop to stock price. The future is still all dependent on their parks actual operational plan, which has floundered. This is window dressing, though lucrative to the land purchaser

ISSUES:
1)The true value of the land. SF properties are not really in areas where they will fetch large price tags, not prime real estate.They are 40. 50.60 miles outside of major metros. This isn't like Cedar Fair where the land was way very valuable, more than the CGA park, cause it was in the heart of Silicon Valley. Cedar Fair purchased the land, sold it 3 years later for $150M profit & plan to close the park within 5 to 11years while retaining all the assets, ride, etc.. to sell to other parks or relocate to their other parks.
2)The potential lease payments overtime... They will easily over 15 or 20 years pay more in lease payments than the immediate cash infusion they received. Those lease payments could eventually weigh on the financials as much as owing large interest payments from debt.
----There are like 4 or 5 issues, that are wonky financial & structure stuff that SF would have to show caution in how any deal is made.

This pitch however could get a lot of support from investors, as SF has lost them a lot of money since those $70 highs in 2018. The future performance is murky & far under peers currently. Investors could see this as an exit point ti mitigate losses if the stock pops on a deal. SF doesn't have the dividend of 5 to 8% yearly like in the past, that would keep investors around during down cycles.
Last edited by Sven18 on January 8th, 2023, 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Goku1910 on January 6th, 2023, 1:34 pm
Screamscape put it into really simple terms.

TLDR: It's a trap.
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Postby Sven18 on January 16th, 2023, 10:38 am
Selim might be capitulating again?
1)SFOT & SFFT are showing Diamond passes for $150, down from $250(the standard at all except small parks across the chain.) Price changes & pass offerings the lat year or so have all first happened at the Tx & Cali parks(1st to end memberships & get the short lived 12 mth from purchase pass) Of course it's SF so it could just be their IT messed up, they have missed priced stuff in the past & corrected it a few days later.

2) The cloning of small inexpensive coaster has returned a la JRA. SFFT & SFOG getting Syline family single rail racing coasters. SFSTL tease looks like they are getting it too. 3 clones in 2023, classic JRA era management.
https://twitter.com/aceonlineorg/status ... 7532788741
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Postby Sven18 on January 19th, 2023, 9:48 am
PRICE DECREASES

The Diamond pass decrease seen at SFOT & SFFT down to $150 from $250 have spread to the California parks. SFMM is down to $180 & DK to $150. Expect the decreases to spread gradually, just like they spread increases from CA & TX to everywhere else, the decreases will likely go the same. Expect GAm to likely get the $150 level, as the park is usually priced like the Texas parks.
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Postby Sven18 on January 23rd, 2023, 11:31 am
Diamond Pass at GAm reduced to $150 on 1/23/22(note they took away the 2 free guest tickets). The reduction is at almost every park now, expect the few stragglers to change soon
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