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RMC EAGLE?

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby awefawn on June 30th, 2019, 12:11 pm
JaminOut wrote:
awefawn wrote:I really want RMC eagle to happen with all my heart, because the poor thing can’t even duel anymore. Thinking back to all the memories of being 10 years old and yelling and cheering at the train next to me on the huge helix while racing....

I do have my reservations though, as they would most likely take the dueling out/heavily shorten the track (even though if they kept the length it could keep its title of longest dueling woodie, which could be a HUGE marketing ploy)

I think everyone knows at this point it’s either Eagle or Demon that’s getting the chopping block in the next 5 years. They haven’t taken out a coaster since all the way back in 2011 with Iron Wolf, so it is definitely due time for them to take out the trash....... even if it does have its own theme song.


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Ragin Cajun circa 2013 says hi.


So that’s all you got from my post? that i forgot a basic, boring wild mouse model that you could find at literally ANY theme park?

Ragin Cajun barley counts in my opinion, but i had honestly forgot it even existed till you mentioned it just now, so thanks for the correction.


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Postby IssaCoaster on June 30th, 2019, 12:31 pm
awefawn wrote:
JaminOut wrote:
awefawn wrote:I really want RMC eagle to happen with all my heart, because the poor thing can’t even duel anymore. Thinking back to all the memories of being 10 years old and yelling and cheering at the train next to me on the huge helix while racing....

I do have my reservations though, as they would most likely take the dueling out/heavily shorten the track (even though if they kept the length it could keep its title of longest dueling woodie, which could be a HUGE marketing ploy)

I think everyone knows at this point it’s either Eagle or Demon that’s getting the chopping block in the next 5 years. They haven’t taken out a coaster since all the way back in 2011 with Iron Wolf, so it is definitely due time for them to take out the trash....... even if it does have its own theme song.


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Ragin Cajun circa 2013 says hi.


So that’s all you got from my post? that i forgot a basic, boring wild mouse model that you could find at literally ANY theme park?

Ragin Cajun barley counts in my opinion, but i had honestly forgot it even existed till you mentioned it just now, so thanks for the correction.


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I think Demon is going to bite the dust first. Way easier to take down. A lot less money too. I just can't see them taking down Eagle. Taking it down would probably cost a lot of money. Again, I think the conversion would be the best choice money wise.

I also don't really get how people think that because we have Goliath, they aren't going to convert Eagle. They would be two completely different ride experiences. I don't think Six Flags cares if we have two RMC's either. The way they see it, a great coaster for cheap. And a foolish title: "Park with the most RMCs". They're saving a classic from being completely lost.
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Postby anewman35 on June 30th, 2019, 1:02 pm
An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.

And I think Six Flags would consider the 'two RMC' thing. Yes, it would be different, but it's also kinds simliar m. If Six Flags is going to spend the money on a new RMC, they're gonna want to do it at a park that doesn't have anything simliar at all.
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Postby awefawn on June 30th, 2019, 1:15 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
awefawn wrote:
JaminOut wrote:[quote="awefawn"]I really want RMC eagle to happen with all my heart, because the poor thing can’t even duel anymore. Thinking back to all the memories of being 10 years old and yelling and cheering at the train next to me on the huge helix while racing....

I do have my reservations though, as they would most likely take the dueling out/heavily shorten the track (even though if they kept the length it could keep its title of longest dueling woodie, which could be a HUGE marketing ploy)

I think everyone knows at this point it’s either Eagle or Demon that’s getting the chopping block in the next 5 years. They haven’t taken out a coaster since all the way back in 2011 with Iron Wolf, so it is definitely due time for them to take out the trash....... even if it does have its own theme song.


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Ragin Cajun circa 2013 says hi.


So that’s all you got from my post? that i forgot a basic, boring wild mouse model that you could find at literally ANY theme park?

Ragin Cajun barley counts in my opinion, but i had honestly forgot it even existed till you mentioned it just now, so thanks for the correction.


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I think Demon is going to bite the dust first. Way easier to take down. A lot less money too. I just can't see them taking down Eagle. Taking it down would probably cost a lot of money. Again, I think the conversion would be the best choice money wise.

I also don't really get how people think that because we have Goliath, they aren't going to convert Eagle. They would be two completely different ride experiences. I don't think Six Flags cares if we have two RMC's either. The way they see it, a great coaster for cheap. And a foolish title: "Park with the most RMCs". They're saving a classic from being completely lost.[/quote]

thankfully, i also think that AE has enough of a cult following that if they decided to take it down it would be another Whizzer situation. So the demon finally getting killed off is more than likely within the next 5 years, I’d even gamble on it being in the next 2-3 years in honesty.

but sadly, “cheap” isn’t what I’d call AE RMC. like everyone has been saying in the thread, it would cost 25m MINIMUM, unless they absolutely butchered the layout. American Eagle is LONG, like i said earlier its the longest dueling woodie ever, STILL. It would certainly be cheaper than building a new wooden coaster from the ground up, but realistically i could see them doing RMC AE for the 50th.... even if that is 7 years away, and im not sure AE can take a whole SEVEN more years being in disrepair.

also 100000000% agree on the Goliath point. RMC AE would be a B E A S T compared to Goliath.




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Postby Sven18 on June 30th, 2019, 3:22 pm
anewman35 wrote:An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.


RMC Conversions are relatively inexpensive(ie..Why SF has done them with their Capex limitations, especially if you chop them like SF does. The RMC conversions done by SF, have been small, not adding a lot of height or chopped length thus have ranged from 10-12M. The 1st Ground up I-Box ..Zadra public info from the contract had it at 10M Euros about 11.4M USD.The "expensive" RMC's are when you have long tracks, don't chop them or go all out...Launched like Lrod 22M, Steel Vengeance 20M+, Hakugei documented at 2.8B Japanese yen(25.9M USD) and Gwazi RMC permit have it valued at 20M, plus the values of other associated permits will put it at 22M+.
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Postby JackGlass on June 30th, 2019, 4:30 pm
Sven18 wrote:
anewman35 wrote:An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.


RMC Conversions are relatively inexpensive(ie..Why SF has done them with their Capex limitations, especially if you chop them like SF does. The RMC conversions done by SF, have been small, not adding a lot of height or chopped length thus have ranged from 10-12M. The 1st Ground up I-Box ..Zadra public info from the contract had it at 10M Euros about 11.4M USD.The "expensive" RMC's are when you have long tracks, don't chop them or go all out...Launched like Lrod 22M, Steel Vengeance 20M+, Hakugei documented at 2.8B Japanese yen(25.9M USD) and Gwazi RMC permit have it valued at 20M, plus the values of other associated permits will put it at 22M+.


Sven18, do you know how much Steel Curtain cost?
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Postby Sven18 on June 30th, 2019, 4:45 pm
JackGlass wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
anewman35 wrote:An RMC conversion is NOT cheap. Maybe cheaper than a giant coaster from scratch, but not cheap.


RMC Conversions are relatively inexpensive(ie..Why SF has done them with their Capex limitations, especially if you chop them like SF does. The RMC conversions done by SF, have been small, not adding a lot of height or chopped length thus have ranged from 10-12M. The 1st Ground up I-Box ..Zadra public info from the contract had it at 10M Euros about 11.4M USD.The "expensive" RMC's are when you have long tracks, don't chop them or go all out...Launched like Lrod 22M, Steel Vengeance 20M+, Hakugei documented at 2.8B Japanese yen(25.9M USD) and Gwazi RMC permit have it valued at 20M, plus the values of other associated permits will put it at 22M+.


Sven18, do you know how much Steel Curtain cost?


I know of no public info on the cost. There is also no comparison as this is the first of its type built by S&S
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 30th, 2019, 7:53 pm
Do you guys know how much West Coast Racers or Maxx Force costs? I have the feeling they are one of the bigger investments Six Flags has done in a while.

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Postby JackGlass on June 30th, 2019, 8:42 pm
Yeah, I looked all over the internet for Steel Curtains price tag, but found nothing.

Six Flags Great Adventures park president said that the 2020 attraction would be "Tall, Fast and Steel" An S&S Mega Looper like Steel Curtain, could fit that description. It would fill the void that Great American Scream Machine left, I just don't know if those mega loopers are cost friendly or not.
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Postby maxwellt on June 30th, 2019, 9:15 pm
JackGlass wrote:Yeah, I looked all over the internet for Steel Curtains price tag, but found nothing.

Six Flags Great Adventures park president said that the 2020 attraction would be "Tall, Fast and Steel" An S&S Mega Looper like Steel Curtain, could fit that description. It would fill the void that Great American Scream Machine left, I just don't know if those mega loopers are cost friendly or not.
Idk if that would fill in a "void." They already have both bizzaro and Green lantern, both looping rides that are 60+mph and 150+ ft. That's just me tho, a mega looper in that park would be awesome as well (considering that steel curtain looks pretty awesome). I think an s&s launch coaster could fill in a bit more of a void, yes they have kingda ka, but maybe this could go for more elements and have maybe a non air compress launch (something a little more gradual)

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Postby awefawn on June 30th, 2019, 9:19 pm
why are we talking about a bunch of coasters that have nothing to do with RMC OR SFGAm? I get you guys were talking price points, but I think we’ve gotten quite a bit off topic here?


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Postby IssaCoaster on June 30th, 2019, 9:21 pm
awefawn wrote:why are we talking about a bunch of coasters that have nothing to do with RMC OR SFGAm? I get you guys were talking price points, but I think we’ve gotten quite a bit off topic here?


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I asked what the price tags were for West Coast Racers and Maxxforce. I want to see how much Six Flags is willing to spend on one park. Then I was going to compare the price to other RMC conversions of that similar price. I imagine West Coast Racers to be pretty expensive considering it has four launches.

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Postby maxwellt on June 30th, 2019, 9:29 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
awefawn wrote:why are we talking about a bunch of coasters that have nothing to do with RMC OR SFGAm? I get you guys were talking price points, but I think we’ve gotten quite a bit off topic here?


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I asked what the price tags were for West Coast Racers and Maxxforce. I want to see how much Six Flags is willing to spend on one park. Then I was going to compare the price to other RMC conversions of that similar price. I imagine West Coast Racers to be pretty expensive considering it has four launches.

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Full throttle was 2200 ft of track and cost 6M, if that helps

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Postby IssaCoaster on June 30th, 2019, 9:30 pm
maxwellt wrote:
IssaCoaster wrote:
awefawn wrote:why are we talking about a bunch of coasters that have nothing to do with RMC OR SFGAm? I get you guys were talking price points, but I think we’ve gotten quite a bit off topic here?


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I asked what the price tags were for West Coast Racers and Maxxforce. I want to see how much Six Flags is willing to spend on one park. Then I was going to compare the price to other RMC conversions of that similar price. I imagine West Coast Racers to be pretty expensive considering it has four launches.

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Full throttle was 2200 ft of track and cost 6M, if that helps

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How in the world does full throttle cost only 6 million?

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Postby maxwellt on June 30th, 2019, 9:35 pm
Coasterpedia has it listed at that price, then again Superman at sfdk is also 6M

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Postby JackGlass on June 30th, 2019, 9:47 pm
maxwellt wrote:Coasterpedia has it listed at that price, then again Superman at sfdk is also 6M

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West Coast Racers is 4,000 feet of track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV2y_gbWf_M
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on July 1st, 2019, 9:26 am
Some comments about the most recent posts:

1) Demon - I don't believe this coaster is going anywhere. It's running fairly smooth nowadays. Plus it's the perfect entry level looper for kids, age 5 ! I actually took my daughter on it (not quite 5 ) and she loved it!
I personally think V2 is the next coaster to go, with Maxx Force coming here. Rides like Dark Knight and Demon are critical for the junior riders!

2) 5 year budget for Six Flags parks - I LOVE This idea! Each parks gets a budget to spend. Six Flags could communicate their new strategy to the public, to set expectations.

3) RMC Eagle - I believe this to be cheaper than building a huge ride to replace it. Also, is it possible to dig out the "trench" at bottom of first drop to make the first drop even taller??

4) 2 S&S coasters (Joker and Maxx) - should we advertise that as a "record" or a "selling point" of our park??

5) Goliath - it seems like Goliath's trains are breaking down very soon, considering the ride is only 5+ years old. I'm talking about seatbelts, the lap bar systems, and some of the padding. Also, that ride seems to get stuck much more often than any other ride at the park. Does anyone know if they keep data on rides getting stuck? I can't remember that last time any of the B&M's got stuck on the lift hill.
Last edited by CoasterRiderSC on July 1st, 2019, 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby awefawn on July 1st, 2019, 9:43 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:Some comments about the most recent posts:

1) Demon - I don't believe this coaster is going anywhere. It's running fairly smooth nowadays. Plus it's the perfect entry level looper for kids, age 5 ! I actually took my daughter on it (not quite 5 ) and she loved it!
I personally think V2 is the next coaster to go, with Maxx Force coming here. Rides like Dark Knight and Demon are critical for the junior riders!


really? i took my boyfriend to six flags for the first time ever, he’s only ridden demon once and refuses to go on it again because those damn corkscrews are too painful.

i’ve also found that if you’re taller than like, 5’5 (i’m 5’8-5’9ish) the restraints HURT on your shoulders. i was so uncomfortable the second they pulled it down, and going through 4 inversions with them wasn’t exactly a wonderful feeling. i always TRY to have them not pull it down too much on me, but they always push it down a LOT because i’m skinny and it makes it easily the most painful ride in the park.

I do agree that V2 has gotta go soon too, but sadly its not a very big plot of land so it would be kind of hard to replace it unless they did a similar kind of ride/replaced it with a flat ride (unless they also took out loggers run/yankee clipper, possibly??)

(also, dark knight has been the biggest joke in that park since it came out, but thats another topic for another day, hahaha)

basically theres a lot of things they need to do before RMC AE is gonna happen. thats why i keep saying its probably gonna be their big coaster for the 50th anniversary in 2026, even if that seems like a million years away......



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Postby CoasterRiderSC on July 1st, 2019, 9:58 am
^ Joker, to me, has been the biggest joke in the park (no puns intended at all).

As for Dark Knight, it always has a line. So some people like it :) Remember, it's not a "thrill" ride but more of a family coaster. My kids love it! And they both love Demon as well.
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Postby IssaCoaster on July 1st, 2019, 10:56 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ Joker, to me, has been the biggest joke in the park (no puns intended at all).

As for Dark Knight, it always has a line. So some people like it :) Remember, it's not a "thrill" ride but more of a family coaster. My kids love it! And they both love Demon as well.

The Demon may be enjoyable for you and your group, but it generally is not well received like the other coasters in the park. I don't even think Six Flags cares too much about it being a training coaster. And if that is the case, they can put in better coaster in it's place that will be more popular with the crowds. The things we take to heart, Six Flags most likely doesn't care about it. They will do whatever it takes to draw in the crowds.
Again though, Idk how much the Eagle can take. It may close early and be SNBO for a few years. It doesn't seem to be doing too well at the moment.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on July 1st, 2019, 2:10 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ Joker, to me, has been the biggest joke in the park (no puns intended at all).

As for Dark Knight, it always has a line. So some people like it :) Remember, it's not a "thrill" ride but more of a family coaster. My kids love it! And they both love Demon as well.

The Demon may be enjoyable for you and your group, but it generally is not well received like the other coasters in the park. I don't even think Six Flags cares too much about it being a training coaster. And if that is the case, they can put in better coaster in it's place that will be more popular with the crowds. The things we take to heart, Six Flags most likely doesn't care about it. They will do whatever it takes to draw in the crowds.
Again though, Idk how much the Eagle can take. It may close early and be SNBO for a few years. It doesn't seem to be doing too well at the moment.



Point taken, to an extent, about the Demon. Six Flags doesn't HAVE to remove the Demon, and I'm betting it won't until it becomes absolutely necessary. I really don't understand the complaints about it running rough though. My 2 girls, ages 9 and almost 5 can handle it. I think coming out of the zero G stall on Goliath is 100x more rough in my opinion and nobody complains about that !
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Postby gottastrata33 on July 1st, 2019, 2:42 pm
I cant handle this. I see each ride for what it is, what they contribute to the park. Without the rides we have, we wouldn’t be as well rounded as we are. Not everything needs to be CRAZY. We really don’t have any bad rides. You’re full of it if you think so. I’ve been to parks with bad rides. We honestly don’t have bad rides & I’m not being biased. Demon is in great condition. You just see a bad ride cause it’s bumpy or not intense? With that logic, parks like CP & SFMM should remove cedar creek mine ride, Viper, Woodstock, or Goldrusher... now I do understand it not being comfortable for certain people. I do. My ex is 6’2” & his shoulders hurt from Demon. Old arrows aren’t accommodating to taller or thicker people. So uncomfortable but not bad. & that’s hard to debate cause one person who rides it comfortably (me) won’t see it as rough vs the “tall guy”.

With this all said, I still stand by saying we have a great collection. Dark Knight is a smooth, high capacity family coaster that was simply marketed terribly wrong. It’s fun & great for kids. It’s in no way meant for teens or thrill seekers. Had it been themed to a fun house or something more family oriented, people wouldn’t b**** about it as much. Simple as that. The Batman theme does not match well with it.

Joker. It’s a frickin 4D coaster. While they’re cloned like crazy these days, it’s still a rarity in the theme park industry & I’m glad to have it when we didn’t need it. I’m sorry it’s not X2 but that was never goin to happen. The way they literally squeezed it in while SAVING the bridge & a classic flat amazes me. It’s fun. Could it spin more as they promised? Duh. But again, it’s still fun.

RMC Eagle would deliver that intensity you’re looking for. & yes, it would be different from Goliath. Very different. Trust me. It would also as with everything mentioned, add another tier of well rounded rides we deliver here. You guys don’t even understand how lucky you really have it. I’m so f**kin sick & tired of reading how you want this gone & this sucks or this isn’t thrilling enough when your home park could be Michigan’s Adventure, The Great Escape or NOTHING like someone in South Dakota. Gah. Stop complaining & start seeing things for what they contribute. What they once meant to the industry, Who else enjoys those rides you hate on so much. Try to see the good in each ride rather than “this isn’t thrilling & old, get rid of it”.


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Postby awefawn on July 1st, 2019, 3:21 pm
^ actually thats the only reason I didn’t like the dark knight. the theme is too dark for a family coaster, but its a wild mouse. there’s not a lot of marketability with it. I didnt say it was BAD, i said it was a JOKE because it was super hyped up and ended up just being an indoor wild mouse with mannequins shooting fake guns at you. like you said, if they rethemed it it would probably be an AMAZING family ride; the current theme just doesn’t work at all for it.


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Postby gottastrata33 on July 1st, 2019, 4:17 pm
AT ALL. I think it being rethemed to the Gotham City circus or what they did for fright fest would be so much better. A run down building with the trains being rodents or bugs through rubble would be incredible. But that’s a lot of planning & retheming. Or look at Laff Track at Hershey.... no one goes into that thinking it’s goijg to be intense. On my visit to the park Thursday, I heard People asking in line “does this go upside down?” They know the dark knight theme & go off that. I dont Blame the gp for thinking it’s going to be something it’s not.
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Postby Sven18 on July 3rd, 2019, 1:32 pm
Sven18 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ This is assuming that Great America competes with Cedar Point and vice versa. I thought I read on one of the posts about finances that Cedar Point doesn't consider Great America a competitor?

Sven, you're the expert on this one. What are your thoughts about the 2 parks "competing" with each other?


It's really SFGAm considers Cedar Point competition, but not vice versa. SF mentions CP in their annual report as a competitor as well as Kings Island, each being respectively 340 and 350 miles away. CF has never mentioned SFGAm in that regards. CP as a destination park w/ hotels and resorts does advertise in the Chicago market and many midwest cities. SFGAm does not advertise in what you would say is CP's backyard..ie...Cleveland area or western Ohio, etc...


Cedar Point continues active effort to expand more into Chicago market.
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