leaving one side the classic and one side new makes sense.
NO. It does not. It is beyond stupid. How can it race if one side is completely different? Plus, no one will be able to get to the "old" side because the entire line will be filled with people waiting for the "new" side.
DejaVu2001 wrote:Those are all agendas from the Zoning Board of Appeals (which has since been merged with the Plan Commission and renamed the Planning & Zoning Board)
If they were Village Board agendas, it would say at the end "as recommended by the Zoning Board of Appeals."
4. Consideration of Ord. 98 - granting a variation to Six Flags Great America to allow four separate sections of a proposed roller coaster to reach heights of 202 feet; 155 feet; 141 feet; and 128 feet respectively, as recommended by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Fair enough.
I was going by this one for Giant Drop on 10/07/96
C. BUSINESS MATTERS
1. Consideration of Ord. 96 - granting a height variance to Six Flags Great America to allow installation and operation of a new ride 227 feet in height as recommended by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
leaving one side the classic and one side new makes sense.
NO. It does not. It is beyond stupid. How can it race if one side is completely different? Plus, no one will be able to get to the "old" side because the entire line will be filled with people waiting for the "new" side.
Once again, I'm sure timing a redone blue run is not some impossible task for the engineers. I'm not defending the idea, but you make it sound impossible to race like that. Additionally, if the lines are so lopsided, then it would just encourage people to check out red side. Perhaps someone who never rides Eagle is enticed by a new blue, and then also decides to give red a go.
They would likely build separate queues for each! Everyone knows that the races weren't true anyways, because the trains would never leave at the same time, and even if they did, due to speed, trim brakes, and the layout of the track, the same side WOULD always win anyways! I feel they always wasted to much time with the whole racing thing! I rather see one side rebuilt than both. Perhaps the rebuild will be an exact copy of the blue side. We don't know yet, but I would think they would have a separate queue and stuff!
Well luckily you won't have to worry about all that since it won't be happening. It logically makes no sense. Either they'd do both sides with topper track at some point which it would then remain a wood coaster, or they'd do both sides Texas Giant style. I'd bet money on it.
coasterfanatic wrote:Personally, I will still ride BOTH if this does indeed happen.
Sporlo wrote:Additionally, if the lines are so lopsided, then it would just encourage people to check out red side. Perhaps someone who never rides Eagle is enticed by a new blue, and then also decides to give red a go.
You'll ride the old side because you are (in one case, literally) a coaster fanatic. But the GP won't. Let's face it, for as much as Eagle has a history, it's also getting pretty rough. Don't do anything to one side and that side will only get rougher, and it will seem rougher still relative to a ride literally right next to it that will be smooth as silk after a refurb. People want the better of the two and will wait for it. Goliath practically dwarfs Colossus at Magic Mountain and Colossus is pretty much a walk-on a lot of the time now while Goliath is still often a 45-minute wait.
coasterfanatic wrote:Everyone knows that the races weren't true anyways, because the trains would never leave at the same time, and even if they did, due to speed, trim brakes, and the layout of the track, the same side WOULD always win anyways!
For me, it's kind of like pro wrestling is for some folks: OK, yeah, the race basically depended on the ride ops releasing the trains at the exact right time, so no, the race isn't really true and the result is pretty much determined by who pushes a button first. But the same way two guys fake wrestling is a neat enough concept to draw a lot folks in, Eagle's fake race draws me in because of the spectacle. It was double the work to build, plus the extra bit of work to create a race that's at least close to fair. I think that's really cool, especially in a coaster created before CAD and high-tech computer simulations, made from classic materials.
Sporlo wrote:Once again, I'm sure timing a redone blue run is not some impossible task for the engineers. I'm not defending the idea, but you make it sound impossible to race like that.
Possible? Sure. But it kind of sounds like racing an Indycar against a stock car but making the Indycar run 100 more miles to make up for its superior aero package and speed. Yes, you can do it, but it's more fun when everyone in the race has the same equipment because then you have the chance of neck-and-neck racing. Think about the helix: Right now, part of the fun is seeing where the Red train is relative to the Blue train, knowing Red will pick up some ground. After a refurb, Blue might not even take the helix, but if it does, I'd guess there's a good chance it will simply fly by Red, leaving the Red folks thinking ... "OK, why'd we ride this again?"
The idea of it still being a race after a hybrid refurb would be really strange and just wouldn't feel right unless it was some how masterfully executed and rethemed such that perhaps the ride is like one train haunting the other by zooming, over, around and past it like a ghost or something. I don't have the faith in Six Flags to do something that fanciful, though.
Sorry — still not convinced this is anything other than ruining a classic.
SFGAm Viper wrote:Well luckily you won't have to worry about all that since it won't be happening. It logically makes no sense. Either they'd do both sides with topper track at some point which it would then remain a wood coaster, or they'd do both sides Texas Giant style. I'd bet money on it.
Hoping you're right, but too broke to bet. Anyone who can afford making wagers also want to buy/move the pool table we're looking to sell from our condo in Greenfield, Wis.?
Patch wrote:This whole thing is just a huge mess... I think I'll just wait patiently...
Why in the world would the park just do one side and not the other. Outlaw Run has RMC topper track, and that's considered a wood coaster. Why not just put on topper track on both sides, leave the existing structure and layout, and it'll still keep it's title as largest racing woodie? I know some want a new layout, but why take from the rides glory when it could just be a "fixer upper?" And wasn't the station built INTO the ride? If so, that may call for a whole new station. If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Arguably, the ride may have lost a good portion of it's glory after they removed the old queue in the circus tent to accommodate Wiggle's World/Kidzopolis. By the way, does anyone know if the old entrance even exists anymore?
Consecutive Trips Riding X Flight: 92 SFGAm Lifetime Trips: 104
Eagle doesn't need a full RMC makeover, especially if they only do one side. Eagle just needs a refreshed station, paint job, and re-tracked helixes. I wouldn't mind topper track but I feel a complete RMC overhaul is unnecessary.
Founder of http://www.sfgamnation.com Favorite Steel: 1. Maverick 2. The Incredible Hulk 3. Millennium Force Favorite Wood: 1. Outlaw Run 2. The Beast 3. American Eagle
coasterfanatic wrote:Everyone knows that the races weren't true anyways, because the trains would never leave at the same time, and even if they did, due to speed, trim brakes, and the layout of the track, the same side WOULD always win anyways!
So many things wrong with this statement. When the Eagle was first built, it was designed to be a racing coaster, and for the first decades, it pretty much was. It may seem like the same train would always win, but the design was planned out so each train would have a fair chance at winning (added hills/turns to make up time).The reason it is so one-sided today, is because of a lack of ride-op synchronization, and the fact that the lifts and tracks are getting pretty old. I personally think that a RMC conversion on one side would be stupid and would ruin the experience and the whole idea of a racing coaster (ENDRANT)
BTW: Did the old hold breaks on the top of the lift hills have anything to do with letting the cars go down at the same side?
GoBears wrote:Eagle doesn't need a full RMC makeover, especially if they only do one side. Eagle just needs a refreshed station, paint job, and re-tracked helixes. I wouldn't mind topper track but I feel a complete RMC overhaul is unnecessary.
I agree. Everyone around the country all of a sudden wants every wooden coaster to get the RMC treatment when it's not usually needed. Eagle has run far worse some years than it is today. Texas Giant and Rattler were seriously injuring people before their RMC treatments. Eagle is not that I hear of. And no offense to anyone, but I even see people saying Viper needs the RMC treatment. Are they kidding? It's a wooden coaster; there is going to be a bit of roughness! My sister heard they are tearing down Eagle completely. That is how little some people think of and know about this classic if that rumor is flying around.
I see GP members posting online it's old and going to collapse. It's only 32 years old! That's not that old for a wooden structure that is maintained well. Heck, there are trees and wood-framed houses that have been standing strong for hundreds of years!
I have ridden Eagle every year since the it opened, and I have never once been hurt on it, and never once had anything but a fun ride. Hades at Mt. Olympus hurt my back a couple years ago when it was only 6 years old! Yes, the brake grab on the first helix of Eagle stinks when it's on, and the final helix can be rough, but this is THE iconic coaster for this park. It is a work of art to behold driving north on 94 or down Washington St. to the back entrance.
It is not the greatest wooden coaster out there anymore and some of the modern ones I've ridden are amazing, but the history and racing aspect mean so much to me. I first rode this coaster with my dad when I was 5, and now I ride it with my own children. That means so much more than having the latest and greatest layout. Don't reprofile it, SF!
I would much rather get a new GCI coaster in IW's spot than have SF waste the money on a full RMC rehab of Eagle.
^ I think that newer zoning laws will not allow them to build a ride that close to Washington St. so if they remove it they will lose valuable space that said they will upgrade eagle before thinking of full removal
Last edited by scott2608 on August 13th, 2013, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To preface this - I have no idea what SFGAm might be getting - I haven't heard anything reliable - this is just what I'd think logically:
The park won't be getting a coaster, or a redo of a coaster or anything over 10 million dollars.
That said, I think the idea of giving the Rocky Mountain Treatment to one side of AE is pretty cool. It'd be easy to market "Old vs New" challenge, and AE needs a makeover so badly. RMC could get creative with the layout and that idea could give AE another 20 years of life.
But again, the park got its first "big" coaster last year after 9 years off, I don't think we'll be seeing anything that major in 2014.
Then again, I also said that Chang and Batman running backwards wasn't logical either, so it goes to show that my opinion may mean nothing.
Top 5 wood-5-Goliath 4-Ravine Flyer II 3-Phoenix 2-Voyage 1-El Toro Top 5 Steel- 5-Velocicoaster 4- Maverick 3- Fury 325 2-Steel Vengeance 1-X2 Coaster Count: 444
w00dland wrote:RMC could get creative with the layout and that idea could give AE another 20 years of life.
Are you trying to say it doesnt have 20 years of life left now? There are several wood coasters out there that are almost 100 years old. I'm not sure why people think Eagle is so old, it isnt really at all. More than anything it needs paint!
Im not sure how many people that post here actually get out to other parks, but I am someone who does. Eagle and Viper both run better than a lot of the junk I have been on at other parks. Go check out how well the Georgia Cyclone runs, for example, and its 9 years newer than Eagle is! Of course now they have started some RMC topper track refurb on that ride, and those parts are glass smooth. Nothing wrong with the topper track. It keeps it a wood coaster with the same layout, only a lot smoother and easier to maintain. We dont need to turn every wood coaster out there into a steel one.
kossdude1 wrote:Why in the world would the park just do one side and not the other. Outlaw Run has RMC topper track, and that's considered a wood coaster. Why not just put on topper track on both sides, leave the existing structure and layout, and it'll still keep it's title as largest racing woodie? I know some want a new layout, but why take from the rides glory when it could just be a "fixer upper?" And wasn't the station built INTO the ride? If so, that may call for a whole new station. If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Arguably, the ride may have lost a good portion of it's glory after they removed the old queue in the circus tent to accommodate Wiggle's World/Kidzopolis. By the way, does anyone know if the old entrance even exists anymore?
I think it has to do with that the line isn't what it used to be for Eagle. Back before they added the Wiggles World, they had so many lines in the tent. If I had to guess, it would probably be 20 or 30 lines. It was ridiculous. Now, even though people complain about it's the dumbest line ever, it's so much shorter in length than what they had before. The whole reason why they are thinking of changing one side in my opinion is because it's just not as popular as it used to be. The ride is 32 years old. The park says that it's 2 different coasters, and to me the ride isn't getting enough lines for 2 coasters.
What I would expect from a new side Eagle is something comparable to Superman Ride of Steel whether it be Darien Lake (They changed the name of the ride.), Six Flags America, or Six Flags New England. At SFGAm, the comparison would be Raging Bull, but I think there are much better hypercoasters than RB. Just adding topper track to the American Eagle isn't really going to help get the AE line longer in my opinion. As jerky as it might sound, I think that people should be greatful that they would even keep one side of the Eagle. They could just say that they are going to tear it all down instead. If they did this to Colossus at Magic Mountain, I wouldn't mind them tearing down one side for a new coaster, and keeping one side. And I just want to mention that I really like Colossus. The same thing could happen with Gemini at Cedar Point. It's most likely never going to happen because the tracks are too close together, but if they took one side of Gemini away, it doesn't matter much to me because let's say they get a great steel / wooden hypercoaster instead. Obviously, the real reason in the first place why they made certain wooden coasters have 2 sides is really because of capacity. Sure, we can argue that they only reason they made them is to watch them race rather than capacity, but the fact is, is that Six Flags in 1981 didn't have all these coasters they have today. They really needed the capacity badly!
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
Honestly My best guesses are Some topper track to eagle and a 200+ft Sky Screamer where Orbit Is (Which explains why it's been down/why it hasn't reopened.)
I can kinda guess why they would doing only 1 side cause Eagle is just 270ft shorter than Texas Giant was and I don't see Six Flags spending 20+ million* to convert both sides in 1 year.
* Texas Giant cost 10 million to convert with New rails.
scott2608 wrote:^ I think that newer zoning laws will not allow them to build a ride that close to Washington St. so if they remove it they will lose valuable space that said they will upgrade eagle before thinking of full removal
I have heard this too. With that big of a piece of land for one ride, it should be popular. I see both sides of Eagle getting RMC treatment before 2016- 2017. For all of those who think a ride should be kept as is because it is "historical", go ride a RMC. Historical does not have anything to do with attendance or popularity. Outlaw Run and Iron Rattler have been described as game changers. There is a good amount of marketing potential with an Eagle redo. And that will bring in more people than leaving the ride alone. We also have no idea how much money is spent for maintenance on Eagle. A redo would lessen that, especially if it is no longer white.
First of all where are we getting this 10 Million dollar number at? How do we know that it will be under 10 million?
BLADE wrote:I have heard this too. With that big of a piece of land for one ride, it should be popular. I see both sides of Eagle getting RMC treatment before 2016- 2017. For all of those who think a ride should be kept as is because it is "historical", go ride a RMC. Historical does not have anything to do with attendance or popularity. Outlaw Run and Iron Rattler have been described as game changers. There is a good amount of marketing potential with an Eagle redo. And that will bring in more people than leaving the ride alone. We also have no idea how much money is spent for maintenance on Eagle. A redo would lessen that, especially if it is no longer white.
If it still going to be white the park is called Great America, they are not going to change the theme. Red white and blue... They will have to redo the trains which will take a while, I just do not see this RMC thing happening until next year especially since the death in Texas, plus on top of that they are running it till the end of the season. It would then have to be closed all season next year because the RMC takes so long to do. Regarding what Blade also said I could see a redo next year but this year we have holes to fill which I have a feeling Hank feels this is WAYY more important.
IF they are tearing out Ragin' Cajun(I am still not completely convinced just because we already have a large gaping hole in the park as is. I feel like this "10 million" dollars would go to a new ride. Why are we so stuck on a skyscreamer, I just do not understand why we are so stuck on these ideas that have no background to them...
