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CHANG WATCH: The Official Topic

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby CoasterFusion on June 21st, 2010, 1:53 pm
I guess we can all agree that there are multiple parks in the chain that could use Chang. I am against ripping out Great American Scream Machine. I think it is a classic ride and was one of my firsts when I was a kid.

Bizarro is like Chang in regards to elements, however, it delivers a totally different feeling. Instead of sitting your standing. I think Weber felt it necessary to move Chang to Six Flags Great Adventure because of the budget problems they are having with GASM.

When they removed FreeFall and Chiller it was because of budget constraints for constantly having to fix the rides. It wasn't that Kingda Ka was faster and there was no point for Chiller, it was because the ride was constantly going down. Let's also not forget Mr. Freeze is one of Chiller. There are two sides to Chiller which take a lot of energy and money to run. The fact that the coaster had so many LIM Motors which needed to be replaced was enough. The coaster was doomed when it was opened with zero-g-roll.

As for GASM I guess it is getting costly for the ride to operate. That is the only thing I can think of. So why not replace it with a reliable piece of machinery from another park where you can then invest in other areas of the park. We all know from this discussion that SFGAdv needs a series of flat rides, so this is the perfect opportunity. Instead of taking something out and not replacing it with something, they are doing something smart by taking something out and replacing it with a coaster from another park which they didn't purchase. Then they can take the money there were going to use on something new that isn't needed yet for a series of flat rides. This would leave the park not needing anything for a couple of years. Which would give the other parks something new in years to come.

That is the way I look at it...
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Postby Ilovthevu' on June 21st, 2010, 1:56 pm
^^^Well when I was at that park, Scream! was like a station wait, and Riddler's was longer. This could also have to do with stand-ups taking longer to load than floorless though. The parking lot thing could have something to do with it or not too? However, I went maybe in April or May. For the Dive Loops on Riddler, it reminded me almost of a full loop type of thing because you had one, and than the next one was right after it. I guess for Riddler's I would definitely would say those Dive Loops really separated it, and I didn't notice the rest of that ride being so similar to Scream! I guess I look at it, is that Chang must surpass Bizarro in order for it be worth it.

^^Yeah, but than those people that visit Gurnee might visit downtown Chicago also for museums, zoos, shopping, and Navy Pier. You also have to remember the Six Flags is also competing with carnivals - state fairs / county fairs, Magic Waters, Raging Waters, smaller indoor waterpark like the one in Elmhurst IL, and even Disney World / Universal. I was at Kings Island and someone was talking about Space Mountain. I also have heard Space Mountain rumblings in the Dark Knight line.
Last edited by Ilovthevu' on June 21st, 2010, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bizarroboy on June 21st, 2010, 2:00 pm
CoasterFusion wrote:I guess we can all agree that there are multiple parks in the chain that could use Chang. I am against ripping out Great American Scream Machine. I think it is a classic ride and was one of my firsts when I was a kid.

Bizarro is like Chang in regards to elements, however, it delivers a totally different feeling. Instead of sitting your standing. I think Weber felt it necessary to move Chang to Six Flags Great Adventure because of the budget problems they are having with GASM.

When they removed FreeFall and Chiller it was because of budget constraints for constantly having to fix the rides. It wasn't that Kingda Ka was faster and there was no point for Chiller, it was because the ride was constantly going down. Let's also not forget Mr. Freeze is one of Chiller. There are two sides to Chiller which take a lot of energy and money to run. The fact that the coaster had so many LIM Motors which needed to be replaced was enough. The coaster was doomed when it was opened with zero-g-roll.

As for GASM I guess it is getting costly for the ride to operate. That is the only thing I can think of. So why not replace it with a reliable piece of machinery from another park where you can then invest in other areas of the park. We all know from this discussion that SFGAdv needs a series of flat rides, so this is the perfect opportunity. Instead of taking something out and not replacing it with something, they are doing something smart by taking something out and replacing it with a coaster from another park which they didn't purchase. Then they can take the money there were going to use on something new that isn't needed yet for a series of flat rides. This would leave the park not needing anything for a couple of years. Which would give the other parks something new in years to come.

That is the way I look at it...

I understand where your coming from. But we have not had a major roller coaster since 2003. You guys have had many roller coaster since 2003. It should be out turn to get something big.
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Postby CoasterFusion on June 21st, 2010, 2:02 pm
^But do you really consider this something big. If I wanted something big for my park I would want a totally new ride, not a re-location...
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Postby traincrossing9 on June 21st, 2010, 2:03 pm
^^Who said that the next big thing had to be a coaster though?
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Postby bizarroboy on June 21st, 2010, 2:05 pm
CoasterFusion wrote:^But do you really consider this something big. If I wanted something big for my park I would want a totally new ride, not a re-location...

To me it is. I wouldn't know what it's like to get anything major at SFGAm (that I can remember). So basically anything above 100 feet is big to me.
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Postby monsterfan99 on June 21st, 2010, 2:06 pm
JForceFC014 wrote:
monsterfan99 wrote:^Or SF Great Adventure gets some flats and a park that needs it gets Chang. Meanwhile, this park takes a break for a year, seeing as it's only competition within 3 hours is Little Amerrika and Indiana Beach along with some family fun centers.


You forgot the Dells. As far as families considering where to vacation, the Dells collectively is a major competitor. A few smaller amusement parks with some decent coasters and a handful of waterparks with some themed hotels makes it a much more family friendly destination than just SFGAm alone. In Gurnee, all you have as far as major tourist destinations are SFGAm, Keylime Cove, and Gurnee Mills. Not some place you could really spend a week.

I didn't forget them, but it is 4 plus hours to the dells (if you drive at around the speed limit.) It's not really a place you could hit for the day and come home. Plus people do not go there for the coasters by themselves (unless your a coaster nerd,) they go for the water parks, go-karts and tourist trap stuff. Seeing Hades last week struggle to fill a train in 10 minutes while people flocked to everything else was a sign to me.

SF Great America is not a destination park, it just has one of the largest population centers to work with. If anything, it is something people can do after a week plus in Chicago.
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Postby david on June 21st, 2010, 2:08 pm
Weber is an Interim CEO. Where the hell does he get off changing all of the set plans? BLASPHEMY!

Cooled Down now.

I find it epically hilarious that once Shapiro was out, all of you seemed so, "He sucked! He removed Vu! He would have ruined the parks!!!" ahahhaahah

And I hated him all along ;)

But seriously, isn't an interim CEO just supposed to make sure that everything financially is flowing, and that operations are smooth?

And why on earth does it matter if it's a parking lot coaster? Chang was going to be one, and you guys know it. I ride for the ride, not the theming. Although any theming is an added bonus. When our pieces of Chang disappear, and GASM is removed, I'll say this rumor is true.

Also, Shapiro mentioned before that Great America was the most attended and profitable of all parks.
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Postby Ilovthevu' on June 21st, 2010, 2:11 pm
Wade Shows has a Wipeout for $125,000 that would nice to get! It would be the best airtime in our park in my opinion. Do you think SFA still has that Alpine Bobs (Avalanche) they could give away to us??

^Shapiro said most profitable. He didn't say most attended. It's why a lot of the kids movies do better than the other movies. It's because their parents bring them to whatever movie they want to go to.
Last edited by Ilovthevu' on June 21st, 2010, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby monsterfan99 on June 21st, 2010, 2:12 pm
^^Currently he is interim, but could be made permanent. It's all about following the SEC procedures for naming a CEO, which involves about a million and 1 hurdles to jump through.

Edited for spelling.
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Postby acquaz10 on June 21st, 2010, 11:31 pm
What. A. Mess.
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Postby monsterfan99 on June 21st, 2010, 11:34 pm
A big thank you to whoever cleaned that mess up.
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Postby acquaz10 on June 22nd, 2010, 12:05 am
Bonzai Beach anyone? Maybe. But I do have a feeling Deluge is coming up.

Can someone change the topic now since its pretty much confirmed Chang's new home isn't Great America.
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Postby deja blues on June 22nd, 2010, 12:36 am
What the heck just happened. We were all so sure that Chang was coming here. I don't want to be yelled at for using wikipedia as a source but right now it says, "Rumors began to abound during the 2010 season about the removal of The Great American Scream Machine, due to its low attendance. On June 21st, 2010, the rumors were confirmed as true. Great American Scream Machine's last scheduled day of operation will be July 1st, 2010, whereupon it will be removed and replaced with Chang, a stand-up roller coaster from Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom." Thats kinda CrAzY! However, it also says Chang is coming to six flags great america, "Also, they are holding the ride Chang in storage and it will be installed for the 2011 season and it will stretch from the entrance plaza through the former Space Shuttle America area and over the Go Kart track." WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE!?! Everyone knows Wikipedia is the most trusted source for data.
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Postby onyxhotel08 on June 22nd, 2010, 12:59 am
Fan sites, screamscape and wikipedia are NOT credible sources.
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Postby Galvan on June 22nd, 2010, 1:12 am
Ilovthevu' wrote:Wade Shows has a Wipeout for $125,000 that would nice to get! It would be the best airtime in our park in my opinion.



You obviously dont ride American Eagle Red.
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Postby rct2wizard360 on June 22nd, 2010, 1:12 am
Sorry to say this but I am completely FOR Chang heading over to Great Adventure.

#1: They can market a stand-up coaster. Granted, the park did at one time have a stand-up. It was an old Intamin with a loop. Nowhere near the size with the "eye candy" factor of Chang. Anybody who even remembers Shockwave will be able to see this as a step up. One could say that the same holds true for us. Market a bigger stand-up over the smaller one. Easier said than done. We all know Iron Wolf's reputation with at least half of us, along with the general public. No go.

#2: GASM is dying. With no more Arrow around for parts or maintenance and spare trains from other removals running low, cost is becoming a factor in keeping this ride running. From what everyone over at GAdv.com is saying, GASM is showing the same exact popularity factor as Shockwave was in it's final years here. Crowded days it'll get a line, otherwise? Walk right on. Take out eye candy, replace with more eye candy without killing the company bank account.

#3: Hurricane Harbor Expansion is GOOD! I don't know if any of you remember, but in 2005 (which just HAPPENED to be the year Hurricane Harbor opened) I recall that being one of the best years for the park? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's the same year our attendance went through the roof? The waterpark still carries that same popularity today. Most people make that a priority to hit up the waterpark at some point during the day. Add more to it, and you keep it fresh. Keep it fresh, and people come back. People come back, you make more money.

I know its a big disappointment that we aren't getting a decent sized coaster... AGAIN. Maybe this will only mean better things for us in the future, or just keep us in an even longer drought before the company possibly goes under. Who knows! But sitting here arguing about it doesn't help. Nothing is 100% until it happens, however dawning on that isn't going to help. In a month this'll all be blown over. Calm down, and let it happen.
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Postby onyxhotel08 on June 22nd, 2010, 1:17 am
Hurricane Harbor is just 5 years old. While it did increase attendance and it is vital to the park, I don't think an addition will do much for the numbers. Capacity is bound to peak as this is the only major water park option for Chicago residents/suburbs. I guess we will see July 1st.
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Postby Luxornv on June 22nd, 2010, 2:43 am
CoasterFusion wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, however, Six Flags Great America has lost one coaster over the years and that was Shockwave. Six Flags Great Adventure has lost Chiller, FreeFall, Musik Express, AutoBahn, Space Shuttle, Chaos, Jumpin Jack Flash, Evolution, Inverter, and so on. I think it is time Six Flags Great Adventure gets some much needed love.


SFGAm also lost Deja Vu because it was a maintenance nightmare like Chiller.

And really, the SFGAm sounds spoiled compared to SFGAdv? Let's break down what they have:

SFGAm:
13 Coasters operating this season (2 clearly kiddie coasters)
No record breakers
A fairly standard set until you get to Raging Bull which is arguably the best coaster at the park.
Good variety in type, like flying, standing, inverted, etc.
LasttThrill coaster - S:UF in 2003

SFGAdv:
12 coasters (after GASM closes)
Kingda Ka - Tallest and 2nd fastest coaster in the world.
El Toro - one of the highest rated wooden coasters anywhere by many enthusiasts and polls.
Nitro - similar to Raging Bull at SFGAm
Not much variety in terms of type
Last thrill coaster - El Toro in 2006

Both parks have a Batman, Dark Knight, and S:UF.

I'm not quite sure on the flats at each park.

Chang would help the variety at SFGAdv, and it would also equalize how many coasters each park has at SFGAdv. However, SFGAm hasn't had a thrill coaster in 7 years as opposed to 4 at SFGAdv. It just seems that when SFGAdv has a record breaking coaster and another that is perennially rated among one of the best coasters around, SFGAm is more deserving of a coaster. Objectively, this seems like a coin flip decision. However, since I live closer to SFGAm, I'm partial to that park.

Also let's keep in mind the reputable evidence so far. SFGAm has been before the Gurnee Zoning Board to request a height variance, and there were pictures of the proposed layout. SFGAdv has confirmed that GASM will be removed, but there is still no firm evidence of what will replace it. However, let's also keep in mind that SFGAm has not officially announced that Chang will be installed there either.

Based on what is known, it still seems more likely that Chang is going to SFGAm. Things do change though.

Edit: I'd also like to say that I have never heard of Coaster Fusion before today. As for what do you have to gain from all of this? If it is true, you have the bragging rights for being the first to report it, and surely all the increased traffic to your site is bringing in greater ad revenue.
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Postby shockwave guy mark on June 22nd, 2010, 3:27 am
This is pretty upsetting. All I can say is I hope that we are not getting a water park expansion. I mean think about it guys... We had some room here for something really cool, a brand new roller coaster or large flat ride (s). We don't need a water park expansion... Think about it for a sec though, this is Illinois and we cant run the park everyday like other parks do in southern states. Plus its not always warm up here, and the weather is inconsistent. Not to mention that I think our water park is large enough already and we can wait a while. It reaches capacity on its own for just being a water park.

I know we have a lot of flats compared to some parks, so why not add a coaster, it just seems sort of obvious. Maybe Chang was not a great choice... However that's quite some land that is possible to build on for something new or old. I just don't know where this park is trying to go right now seeing as all the times I have gone the actual theme park has been pretty empty with the exception of memorial day. In my opinion I think adding a coaster to our park is just a smarter business move.
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Postby SFGAm Viper on June 22nd, 2010, 8:13 am
I'll take an Evel Knievel clone in that spot please! :)

That would be a hell of a lot better addition than Chang!
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Postby acquaz10 on June 22nd, 2010, 9:26 am
onyxhotel08 wrote: ..... screamscape ....[is] NOT [a] credible source.


Considering Lance is the one who suggested the crazy Chang rumor in the first place....


This sums up my experience on SFGAmWorld. You guys first are so excited for Chang, wanting it to floor less. It gets uncovered finally, but it isn't floor less, everyone is pissed saying they'd rather not have it. Now that its not coming some people are pissed again for a different reason? Make up you're mind.
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Postby T.K. on June 22nd, 2010, 9:37 am
Wait wait wait ;-) What reliable source did tell you guys that Chang is going to SFGADv, who was it? McGaver or Chuck Norris? I dont think either of these guys know what the true is, but city of Gurnee does, neh? The board meetings about Chang comming to SFGAm is indeed a wild rumor?

What I can see here are few things. You guys believe rumors not the true. Complain about Chang comming to SFGAm, then whinning about it possibly going to SFGADv.

Make up your mind. Stick to it. Do not believe what my friend's mother working with this coworker his aunt's ex boyfried told that Chang was leaving SFGAm.

On the other note:
Chang would be great adition here if they remade IW as floorless (then would be similar to the dark knight at SFNE). Chang is awesome stand up, I'm not sure if making it floorless would be the best idea. Now Chang going to SFGADv sounds like reasonable idea, but it is not happening. It fits there better if SFGAm wants to keep IW as stand up.

If Chang will somehow go to SFGADv, then I think SFHH expansion is a great idea, but with more then just mr.six splash island. We could get the water coaster there and surfing pool, and maybe 3 new slides on top of it.
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Postby bizarroboy on June 22nd, 2010, 10:05 am
I'll make up my mind, I want Chang. And I think if we get a Hurricane Harbor expansion I will not be purchasing season pass. Not out of anger, just the fact that I'll have no ambition to go to the park.
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Postby Ilovthevu' on June 22nd, 2010, 10:08 am
rct2wizard360 wrote:#2: GASM is dying. With no more Arrow around for parts or maintenance and spare trains from other removals running low, cost is becoming a factor in keeping this ride running. From what everyone over at GAdv.com is saying, GASM is showing the same exact popularity factor as Shockwave was in it's final years here. Crowded days it'll get a line, otherwise? Walk right on. Take out eye candy, replace with more eye candy without killing the company bank account.

#3: Hurricane Harbor Expansion is GOOD! I don't know if any of you remember, but in 2005 (which just HAPPENED to be the year Hurricane Harbor opened) I recall that being one of the best years for the park? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's the same year our attendance went through the roof? The waterpark still carries that same popularity today. Most people make that a priority to hit up the waterpark at some point during the day.


For, the first comment, than Demon is dying also. Why would they put Chang in front of the park when they could have taken out Demon with Splash Water Falls empty area? Plus, GASM got a Shockwave extra train for parts.

For the waterpark comment, I agree an expansion is good, but I don't think the park was made right to begin with. The slides in the back are hidden by the Skull Island in the middle, and thus the park is lop-sided towards everyone at the front of the park. Also, about when the park tells people that the park is reaching capacity, that's a complete joke. Seriously, there were around 3500 people(The park is reaching capacity, blah, blah!), and capacity is 7500 or something around that. Check the admission thing when coming in to the park - it's when you exit on the left side. It's in like a silver / gray box. It says how many exits, and how many people are in the park at a given time. They say that just to get people into the park. Either that, or they do that everyday it's warmer out.

In regards of capacity too, I hardly see many people in the sandy area. It's might because there isn't much shade over there. And high capacity for some of the slides is somewhat a joke. You had 1 lifeguard doing the 4 slides in the back. You have 1 person for each 2 slides doing the 6 slide complex. I don't have a problem with 1 person for 2 slides, but yet they won't even let you get set if the other slide is open.

If the park gets a water coaster, that would be great but to fully improve the park in my opinion, they always should have all the rafts for the Lazy River maybe even add more because it's never that crowded in there with all the rafts (Put some jets in the area where the rafts get stuck - The part where there is an island and you go to the left. This area isn't helping anyone.), you add shade to the sandy area, you add more lifeguards to the slides, reconstruct the entrance part of the Lazy River (You shouldn't have to walk a long time in order to get to the raft in the water. It slows down the process a lot. A bigger area to store rafts would be better too near the Lazy River Entrance.

Magic Waters has a huge section just for lazy river tubes, but at Great America they keep some at the front, and they hide the rest away along the Lazy River.) and you lower the locker prices at the waterpark. You could move Skull Island, but that would be a lot of money to do something like that. The signs for the 4 tube slides in the back of the park are wrong now because they used to do them across from each other slides you can ride, but now they do the slides that are next to each other. So, if I want the blue slide, the sign is messed up now of what they are doing. For the 6 slide complex, and the tube slides, they should have a separater line (or make the stairs wider and put a separater line - It's the same problem always with Batman the Ride, and Iron Wolf.) because most of the people want to go on the bowl slides instead of the regular tube slides. To me, these are things that would greatly improve the waterpark and it's capacity rather than a new slide. I'm happy if the park does get a water coaster though, but decreasing people's waits for lines I think will even make people enjoy themselves more. Heck, a reason besides the waves being fun; for them being so crowded is because their is no wait at all.
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