Arrow Coaster

[Cove26flags]

Why is it that parks are getting rid of Arrow coasters?

[SFGA 11]

Why is it that you post pointless, obvious questions all the time?

[Shockwave8802]

respect please.

I think it might be because since the company of arrow does not exist now, so they cant get the parts for matince.

[rct2wizard360]

Arrow still exists. It has been a subsidary of S&S power for a few years. S&S arrow has their first steel coaster under new ownership opening this summer called Powder Keg: A Blast in the Wilderness at Silver Dollar City.

[The Beast]

Uh not to be a mod or anything, but shouldn't this be in the General Topics forum, unless you are talking about Shockwave? Anyway Arrow coasters aren't the smoothest coasters around, and most people don't know how to avoid a beating on an Arrow coaster, so the public doesn't like them. Also, a lot of Arrows have been around a long time and represent an old trend (mega loopers) in the business. Although all things aside, I think Arrow is the most important steel coaster company of the last century and they did make some amazing roller coasters.

[sixflagsguy5]

Because the GP doesn't like hitting their head on corkscrews. Also, because if they take up alot of room, the park would rather fit in one or two new coasters than an old coaster.

[FParker185]

Well for spare parts, Vekoma supports Arrow Coasters these days (with some parts still being done by Arrow/S&S

Reason they are disappearing is they are obsolete. They are far rougher and way higher maintaince then more modern coasters, an Arrow Coaster can really burn through your maintaince budget. Also Arrow had alot of issues with Steel Quality(espeially after Huss sold off Arrow Development in the mid 80's), Steel Phantom was turned into Phantoms Revenge mostly because the steel of the track was such a low grade it made sense to do a whole new layout rather than repair the issues(whole thing was covered in stress fractures, that ride was more welds then it was solid steel). Also the low grade steel makes Arrow trains less than durable (Steel Phantom went though 3 sets of trains in it's 10 years), and the trains that were on Shockwave were #'s 5, 6 and 7, and when your 20 year old Arrow Corkscrew needs an expensive new train(s), it makes sense to scrap the whole coaster and get something more modern.

[Mr. SFGAm]

^ Wow, i never knew that about Arrow having problems with their steel quality. In a way that really explains why alot of the "late 80's" Arrow coasters have been disappearing at such a rapid rate.
But it is so true about how the general public feels about these old Arrow (and Vekoma) coasters. Of course, if the OTSR's maybe had an ounce of padding on them, and the headrests weren't solid plastic, they might be just a bit more enjoyable.

[BMRider]

FParker, how many trains has Demon been through? Is that ride on it's last leg? I dont see GA getting rid of that ride anytime soon because it has a low height requirement.

[sixflagsguy5]

And it's in a small narrow area of the park. If they had problems with their steel, then why is Demon still around?

[CoasterDude12-2]

I LOVE ARROW COASTERS!I love Demon's Corkscrew's. I never get Much Headbanging and I'm 6'0". Don't get rida the Demon.





But you're right, Arrow and Vekoma uses bad steele and are getting hard to manage now that the company makes a different kind of coaster and is Under a new name. I've seen the Steele bend on the Whizzer and the Demon, so I think their lives are short now. Which is terrible because their my favorite coasters.

[greatamerica2003]

Well for spare parts, Vekoma supports Arrow Coasters these days (with some parts still being done by Arrow/S&S

Reason they are disappearing is they are obsolete. They are far rougher and way higher maintaince then more modern coasters, an Arrow Coaster can really burn through your maintaince budget. Also Arrow had alot of issues with Steel Quality(espeially after Huss sold off Arrow Development in the mid 80's), Steel Phantom was turned into Phantoms Revenge mostly because the steel of the track was such a low grade it made sense to do a whole new layout rather than repair the issues(whole thing was covered in stress fractures, that ride was more welds then it was solid steel). Also the low grade steel makes Arrow trains less than durable (Steel Phantom went though 3 sets of trains in it's 10 years), and the trains that were on Shockwave were #'s 5, 6 and 7, and when your 20 year old Arrow Corkscrew needs an expensive new train(s), it makes sense to scrap the whole coaster and get something more modern.

How do you know this?

[InsaneNewman]

I've learned to trust FParker... he is almost definitely an insider, as his posts are always detailed, and later proved to be correct.

[Mr. SFGAm]

I've seen the Steele bend on the Whizzer and the Demon, so I think their lives are short now. Which is terrible because their my favorite coasters.

That doesn't mean that their on their last leg at all. If you watch closely on any steel roller coaster, you can see the track flex, shake, or rattle as a train rolls over it.
Example: When you are in the station for Deja Vu, and the train is being pulled out of the station and onto the first lift, when the train is released from the lift, you can see the track shake(or 'jolt', if you will) inside the station. And I am in absolutely no way a physics person, but I'm pretty sure that any roller coaster track has to have a certain degree of flexibility to it, to prevent stressing on the track. Kind of like the way V2's towers sway.

[DejaVu The Ride]

^^

Man all this talk about Arrow Coasters and how the steel is bad, it makes me really wonder how long DejaVu will stay around. It has very poor track and a lot of welding is done to it everynight. Hmmmmm.

[CoasterDude12-2]

That doesn't mean that their on their last leg at all. If you watch closely on any steel roller coaster, you can see the track flex, shake, or rattle as a train rolls over it.
Example: When you are in the station for Deja Vu, and the train is being pulled out of the station and onto the first lift, when the train is released from the lift, you can see the track shake(or 'jolt', if you will) inside the station. And I am in absolutely no way a physics person, but I'm pretty sure that any roller coaster track has to have a certain degree of flexibility to it, to prevent stressing on the track. Kind of like the way V2's towers sway.

Well, Deja Vu won't last long either

[w00dland]

And it's in a small narrow area of the park. If they had problems with their steel, then why is Demon still around?

He also mentioned that it was after Huss sold off Arrow Developments in the 80's. Demon was built in 1976.

I also trust FParker. I don't think I could make this stuff up if I tried.

[FParker185]

Yeah, the older Arrow Coasters, espeially when Huss was in with Arrow were made from higher quality materials, but when Huss left/Sold off Arrow their pool of $$ left with them and the people at Arrow resorted to using alot of lower quality components.

Vekoma actually uses fairly decent steel(and for the most part have though the ages), and now that they are actually owned by a steel company, they use some of the better steel in the industry today. I dont knwo about DV though as all 4 GIB's were made with Vekoma on the verge of bankruptcy, but without any proof otherwise I'd assume they were made like most other Vekoma Coasters. The sturdiness of the 2 towers actually suprised me greatly, I expected a hell of a lot more swaying/shaking, dragging that extremely heavy train up there and releasing it. I think most industry people would actually agree that the DV's are doing alot better than most people expected. Most of the bugs were worked out for the most part and now the issues are actually related to a few different companies going out of business and lack of spare parts now (company that made the lift motors went under and it took SFOG months to find a new lift motor that could get the job done and as a result their's was closed almost all of 2004).

Demon is on trains 4, 5, and 6., with them buying new ones around the time Shockwave was installed(may actually just have been new car bodies, I cant seem to get a definate answer on that), but the ride isnt really all that intense and doesnt put alot of stress on the parts(track or train) so I'd have to assume Demons trains are doing fine despite being made after the whole Arrow Dynamics Huss Split. As a side note, once Arrow started making a bunch of coasters/rides again in the early 90's they did improve their quality standards, and I believe actually outsourced alot of their manufacturing.

Demon looks structually sound, though I'm no engineer, it's biggest enemy is lack of popularity. While the land Demon is on is irregular any decent coaster company could design someting to fit there. I could actually see quite a large coaster going in there, such as a floorless or something along those lines.

Whizzer if fine structually, all structures can bend and flex when forces are applies, and Schwarzkopf Coasters are notorious for shaking quite alot, and having a minimal support structure. Outside of a few parts of the foundation that I can spot detiorating, there is still alot of life left in it. Also Schwarzkopf used only materials of the absolute highest qualities, no one ever has, does, or ever will match the quality of Schwarkopf products from his heyday, that was what sent him into bankruptcy the first 2 times, he refused to lower the quality of his product, and he wouldnt adjust contracts to reemburse him company for the extra costs.

As for me knowing some of that info, Trains, I notice when they go about changing those out most of the time (especially when there is a train on shockwave covered by a tarp but you can blatantly see cars of 3 different colors under the tarp, and 2 brand new trains running in pristine condtion, without even logo's on the lead cars, you tend to figure something's up

Steel quality issues, various pissed off parks spilled the beans about that, at least one park, Kennywood doing it pubilically at one of the off season coaster events.

Also I tend to absorb little bits and pieces of info here and there from various people in the industry that I'd meet at trade shows, coaster manufacturer factory tours and in various travels and whatnot.