SFGAmWorld.com
Untitled Document
Park Information
Latest News
Great America
Roller Coasters
Rides
Hurricane Harbor
Water Slides
Water Attractions
Advertisement

Six Flags/Cedar Fair Merger

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby Jodon on November 2nd, 2023, 10:33 am
Now that there is a press release confirming the Six Flags and Cedar Fair merger, the merger deserves its own thread to track the progress, speculation, and changes due to the merger.

For you, what would be the best-case scenario for the merger for SFGAm? Worst case for SFGAm?

For me, the best-case is that SFGAm gets much-needed infrastructure and cosmetic improvements. A focus on service and ride operations and an eventual increase in capital investments where the park finally gets a roller-coaster longer than 3,500 ft. The park food gets a big upgrade as well.

Worst-case for SFGAm is that the company views SFGAm as direct competition to Cedar Point or Kings Island and puts no capital into the park while increasing the cost of the park. Eventually, the park closes and the rides get moved to different parks in the chain.

To be fair, I feel that the best-case scenario is much more likely than the worst-case. The Chicago/Milwaukee market is huge and ripe for changes to make huge dividends to the new company.

I honestly see the Cedar Fair/Six Flags merger as a net positive for SFGAm. My biggest worry is how this merger will impact Cedar Point.
Jodon

 
Posts: 253
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 2:31 pm

Postby BabyDinosaur on November 2nd, 2023, 12:01 pm
Been a while but the news prompted me to post. Best case scenario is certainly the investment that could go into our park. Much needed leadership change. Investment into the quality and a revamp on theming that makes our park feel closer to a classic Americana theme rather than a DC Universe advertisement. A snoopy themed kids area is certainly welcome though. Just need the kidzopolis area bulldozed in order to make the American Eagle entrance and queue a much better experience. Lots of potential here. Worst case scenario is that we see the quality theming at Kings Island and Cedar Point diminished into super hero garbage. Ideally what's needed if anything is preservation of older coasters and maintaining parks afloat. The debt the two chains carry can't be great.
BabyDinosaur's Coaster Count: 36
BabyDinosaur

User avatar
 
Posts: 66
Joined: July 7th, 2014, 9:58 pm

Postby Goku1910 on November 2nd, 2023, 12:44 pm
I'm in the same boat, I really hope we see less DC Licensing not more. I'm sick of the "using prominent character for name of every ride ever" model.

I was so relieved when Sky Striker wasn't announced as Wonder Woman's "X", or Harley Quinn's "X".

I wonder if these future merger plans had anything to do with it. Do I have high hopes for park infrastructure upgrades? Definitely. Do I still bet that Sky Striker will use DDD's side of the Eagle Entrance for it's new queue? YEP.
Goku1910

User avatar
 
Posts: 2421
Joined: March 5th, 2008, 3:13 pm

Postby Eagle04 on November 2nd, 2023, 10:05 pm
First two thoughts.

I wonder if the season passes will extend to Valley Fair or Michigan's Adventure.

Both Great America's will be back under the same umbrella.
Eagle04

User avatar
 
Posts: 82
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 11:06 am
Location: 2 and a half hours away

Postby Sven18 on November 3rd, 2023, 9:20 am
Jodon wrote:For me, the best-case is that SFGAm gets much-needed infrastructure and cosmetic improvements. A focus on service and ride operations and an eventual increase in capital investments where the park finally gets a roller-coaster longer than 3,500 ft. The park food gets a big upgrade as well.


The SF top 4 or 5 parks are all surely going to pretty quickly get major Capex in infrastructure, Food and Beverage/ new restaurants, etc.. Cedar Fair has spent the last decade bolstering this at all their parks. This initiative has been a hallmark of Cedar Fair and something they tout on their earnings calls, as it has produced very good ROI's The top parks got it first and keep getting it, the smaller parks got it later and proportional. The CEO and CFO are Cedar Fair people in the merger, they have and can do the premiumization Selim failed at. The question still remains will the core SF patron be willing to pay up for it over time, I'm skeptical after many of them being trained for 2 decades for low prices DF price and being ok with the lower level product that comes with that price.

Jodon wrote:Worst-case for SFGAm is that the company views SFGAm as direct competition to Cedar Point or Kings Island and puts no capital into the park while increasing the cost of the park. Eventually, the park closes and the rides get moved to different parks in the chain.


This is not even really a remote possibility. Ki and CP are 5 hours away. 90% of guest to any regional amusement park are within 90 minutes drive. CP and KI are much closer together and though CP is the flagship of the chain(the original) KI still gets a lot of Capex, arguably it gets the 2nd most in the chain. CF doesn't think that way and again, the CEO and CFO are Cedar Fair people.
Sven18

 
Posts: 491
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 10:28 am

Postby Sven18 on November 3rd, 2023, 9:58 am
Overall this merger is tilted towards SF. The chain was floundering, they produced a horrible FY 2022, regressing to 2018 levels of revenue and income. Other regional chains SEAS and Cedar Fair produced record results in the revenge spend, first full normal ops year for parks. SF 2023 results are tracking just as poorly as 2022. The pretty poor results of the Q3 report was overlooked with the merger. SF revenue was up. but of the dismal 2022 and net income actually was down, the only regained a relatively small portion of the 7.4M attendance they lost in 2022 with the price increases, the admission and in park per caps were down big. In contrast Cedar Fair essentially matched their record FY 2022 results, Q3 revenue was down 1M from the 2022 record, despite all the talk of recession, the consumer struggling, etc.. Net income was actually up 37M, excluding the 155M non repeatable event of the CGA land sale in 2022 that inflated Q3 2022 net income. Also, CF was in much better financial condition, they had reinstated their $1.20/yr dividend last year. SF still hadn't after ending it during the pandemic. CF had just completed a 250M stock buy back from April 2022 to April 2023 and authorized another 250M buy back in May 2023. SF finances put them in no shape to do major buy backs. CF really is giving SF which was wayward ship under bad leadership of Selim a lifeline and it could be an anchor for Cf parks as Capex is allocated disproportionately to Sf parks b/c they need so much, that Cf parks already spent the last decade improving.

Cedar Fair is taking on and essentially thru their management team going to have to fix SF parks that lack infrastructure, food service, restaurants, ops, etc...all the things CF has spent the last decade doing and part of their highly successful Seasons of Fun strategy that has lead them to their record results. CF parks produced in FY 2022 1.82B revenue(tracking the same in 2023), SF produced 1.35B in FY 2023(tracking the same for 2023). CF parks produces significantly more revenue with less parks than SF. That revenue allows them to spend significantly more in Capex. thus why they can do the things they do and SF hasn't. CF parks which produce more are revenue/net income are going to be supplementing the needed improvements of SF parks they have been incapable of doing b/c of the chain's finances. That's why this merger is tilted towards SF parks. CF parks used to getting a lot are going to get less while they try to improve the Sf parks. Again, questionable of the long term success as even if they put in the Capex, will a patron base trained for cheap prices for decades and most okay with the lower quality associated with that, pay up after the improvements are made.

In this deal with all the SF parks needing improvements and just in general there are too many parks, too many mouths to field. Part of the success of CF was they only had 11 parks plus the 2 Schlitterbahn parks. SF with 27 combined parks/water parks always had too many mouths to feed. especially with their revenue and Capex budget. Now you have 40+ combined parks. Parks need to go, those with low EBIDTA/net income margins. The EPR lease parks should go. try to get out of the leases early. SF stated those parks are low margin, low price points...ir..Darien Lake, Frontier City and the stand alone water parks. Also, parks like Great Escape, LaRonde. SFA(Kings Dominon only 100 miles away and a much better park)
, etc... CGA is already closing 2027/28 . The sales can help pay down the debt. which Sf is bring more than CF.
Sven18

 
Posts: 491
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 10:28 am

Postby JackGlass on November 3rd, 2023, 6:18 pm
Cedar Fair knows how to make their parks wholesome and family friendly, while at the same time delivering some of the best roller coasters on Earth. If anyone can turn around the Six Flags parks, it's them
JackGlass

User avatar
 
Posts: 505
Joined: July 29th, 2018, 2:37 am

Postby CoasterRiderSC on November 3rd, 2023, 11:04 pm
JackGlass wrote:Cedar Fair knows how to make their parks wholesome and family friendly, while at the same time delivering some of the best roller coasters on Earth. If anyone can turn around the Six Flags parks, it's them


Agree with you!!!
Single Day Ride Count Record

50 rides 8/17/2018 (Without Flash Pass - Coasters After Dark)

---- "Here we go, kids!! Here we go!!"
CoasterRiderSC

User avatar
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: August 4th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL

Postby Coaster Justin on November 6th, 2023, 2:04 pm
I hope the Six Flags parks get more personality put back in and there's more shows

And I hope a greater emphasis on park/ride specific merchandise and Looney Tunes treated better

Course we might get seatbelts on everything
943 Coasters around the World! Countdown to 1000!

http://sfgamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15272

Runner Up of the 2017 SFGAmWorld Elimination Thread
Coaster Justin

User avatar
 
Posts: 2143
Joined: October 12th, 2007, 12:07 pm
Location: Park City, IL

Postby CoasterDave316 on November 8th, 2023, 4:48 pm
This is hopefully good news for SFGAm. Since 2020, SFGAm has been run the worst I have seen in my 30+ years of visiting. It was so bad last season, I didn't even buy a pass this season for the first time in over 20 years.

Also with CGA closing soon, SFGAm is likely to benefit the most from this merger, considering they will probably receive a lot of spare parts for some of the older rides still operating.

At this point it can only bring improvement to the current state of the park.
Go Bulls!
Dave - SFGAmWorld Webmaster
CoasterDave316
Webmaster/Site Admin

User avatar
 
Posts: 2698
Joined: December 27th, 2002, 10:32 am

Postby Goku1910 on November 21st, 2023, 1:39 pm
Agreed, There was a reddit thread asking which park has deteriorated in recent years and SFGAm was my pick.

On a side note of my usual park infrastructure complaints, I simply don't understand the closure of the in-park Hurricane Harbor Entrance. I understand making it it's own gate for non-season pass holders but for those that are the ability to switch between them was a "nice to have" feature of the pass.


It's made worse knowing that this is old entrance is left abandoned and unused.
"I've been told that some part of every wish will be heard but lately I lost sight of the truth in those words."
Goku1910

User avatar
 
Posts: 2421
Joined: March 5th, 2008, 3:13 pm

Postby CoasterNick3157 on November 23rd, 2023, 5:04 am
It's probably full of * weeds now
CoasterNick3157

User avatar
 
Posts: 450
Joined: April 4th, 2008, 11:35 pm
Location: Yorkville, IL

Postby BuckyMcMacho on May 3rd, 2024, 9:45 pm
Snoopy can't work with DC or Looney Tunes. He's more realistic, and he isn't owned by Warner (despite them releasing the specials on DVD at one point.) Yes, even if he's The Masked Marvel.
BuckyMcMacho

User avatar
 
Posts: 8
Joined: May 2nd, 2024, 3:50 pm
Location: Bergen County

Postby Blue_Toad_Coasters on May 5th, 2024, 12:42 am
BuckyMcMacho wrote:Snoopy can't work with DC or Looney Tunes. He's more realistic, and he isn't owned by Warner (despite them releasing the specials on DVD at one point.) Yes, even if he's The Masked Marvel.


My hope is that SF and CF re-theme the Camp Cartoon area of the park to be Camp Snoopy. First, all the park would need to do for the entrance to to take the old sign down and put on a new sign. No need to replace the arch. Next, the park could choose to retheme the Maw and Paw's Trail Grub place to be themed to Peanuts. While the park could simply replace the sign, I would prefer if the park completely tore the place down and rebuilt it to look like Snoopy Treats at Kings Island. They could use a pre-existing name at CF's parks like Snoopy Treats or Snoopy Snacks or come up with something totally new like "Peppermint's Patties" or "Charlie Brown's Cuisine." As for the land itself, just re-theme Crazy Bus to Flying Ace like at CGA or Camp Bus. Same goes for Yahoo River, re-theme it. I despise Sprocket Rockets so I think it would be cool if the park got rid of that and replaced it with Woodstock Express from CGA. It would be really neat and a WAY better family coaster. The park might have to tear down the Auditorium behind the land to make it fit. As for new rides, I would love to see a Linus Launcher clone and a Sally's Swing Set ride. Simply get rid of any remaining WB references in that area and you've got yourself a brand-new land!
Blue_Toad_Coasters

User avatar
 
Posts: 86
Joined: April 4th, 2024, 4:05 pm
Location: Bolingbrook, IL

Postby Dan The Coaster Man on May 5th, 2024, 11:31 am
Blue_Toad_Coasters wrote:My hope is that SF and CF re-theme the Camp Cartoon area of the park to be Camp Snoopy.


Yes, this. Please. Really needs some TLC
Sucker for a launch, custom audio and Viper | Coaster Count: 511
Dan The Coaster Man

User avatar
 
Posts: 561
Joined: November 23rd, 2014, 11:04 am
Location: Southwest Suburbs

Postby Coaster Justin on May 5th, 2024, 5:00 pm
Dan The Coaster Man wrote:
Blue_Toad_Coasters wrote:My hope is that SF and CF re-theme the Camp Cartoon area of the park to be Camp Snoopy.


Yes, this. Please. Really needs some TLC



Most of Yukon Territory could use some work, Between Camp Cartoon and the No-Karts... I mean Go-Karts
943 Coasters around the World! Countdown to 1000!

http://sfgamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15272

Runner Up of the 2017 SFGAmWorld Elimination Thread
Coaster Justin

User avatar
 
Posts: 2143
Joined: October 12th, 2007, 12:07 pm
Location: Park City, IL

Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 12th, 2024, 10:05 pm
I'm going to state the obvious here : With the merger Six Flags and Cedar Fair should look at what each park does the best and try to replicate that where it makes sense:
examples - Cedar Fair has that single day dining pass which is a great deal! I would love to see that rolled out enterprise wide. The service and quality at Cedar Fair parks is excellent in my opinion. I've been to Cedar Point, Kings Island and Worlds of Fun in the last 5 years.

Cedar Fair does an excellent job with the landscaping and park upkeep and I would hope that would spread to Six Flags.

In fact I'm OK if the enterprise decides to "Cedarize" the Six Flags parks to some extent!
Single Day Ride Count Record

50 rides 8/17/2018 (Without Flash Pass - Coasters After Dark)

---- "Here we go, kids!! Here we go!!"
CoasterRiderSC

User avatar
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: August 4th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL

Postby Dan The Coaster Man on May 15th, 2024, 5:07 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote: Cedar Fair has that single day dining pass which is a great deal! I would love to see that rolled out enterprise wide.


SFGAm has this already :wink: although I forget how much it costs, and the food is overall poorer quality here, so maybe its not technically as good of a deal as Cedar Fair. But we do have it
Sucker for a launch, custom audio and Viper | Coaster Count: 511
Dan The Coaster Man

User avatar
 
Posts: 561
Joined: November 23rd, 2014, 11:04 am
Location: Southwest Suburbs

Postby Coaster Justin on May 16th, 2024, 6:09 pm
Dan The Coaster Man wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote: Cedar Fair has that single day dining pass which is a great deal! I would love to see that rolled out enterprise wide.


SFGAm has this already :wink: although I forget how much it costs, and the food is overall poorer quality here, so maybe its not technically as good of a deal as Cedar Fair. But we do have it



$45 here I think
943 Coasters around the World! Countdown to 1000!

http://sfgamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15272

Runner Up of the 2017 SFGAmWorld Elimination Thread
Coaster Justin

User avatar
 
Posts: 2143
Joined: October 12th, 2007, 12:07 pm
Location: Park City, IL

Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 17th, 2024, 6:07 pm
Wow! that's a bit high. I've paid around $35 at Cedar Point, Kings Island and Worlds of Fun. And the food at those places was actually decent!
Single Day Ride Count Record

50 rides 8/17/2018 (Without Flash Pass - Coasters After Dark)

---- "Here we go, kids!! Here we go!!"
CoasterRiderSC

User avatar
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: August 4th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL

Postby coasterfanatic on June 18th, 2024, 9:30 am
Salims reign is about to end. The merger is expected to close on July 1. Bye bye Salim! (As CEO)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
coasterfanatic

 
Posts: 533
Joined: July 27th, 2011, 2:07 am

Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 18th, 2024, 9:13 pm
coasterfanatic wrote:Salims reign is about to end. The merger is expected to close on July 1. Bye bye Salim! (As CEO)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wow. You saw that somewhere? Could our park president's tenure be coming to an end as well?
Single Day Ride Count Record

50 rides 8/17/2018 (Without Flash Pass - Coasters After Dark)

---- "Here we go, kids!! Here we go!!"
CoasterRiderSC

User avatar
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: August 4th, 2016, 1:20 pm
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL

Postby Goku1910 on June 18th, 2024, 9:38 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
coasterfanatic wrote:Salims reign is about to end. The merger is expected to close on July 1. Bye bye Salim! (As CEO)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wow. You saw that somewhere? Could our park president's tenure be coming to an end as well?


Didn't he just start not long ago?
Goku1910

User avatar
 
Posts: 2421
Joined: March 5th, 2008, 3:13 pm

Postby JackGlass on June 19th, 2024, 6:15 am
In my opinion, this is the best thing that could have happened to Six Flags. It needed stable and Longterm leadership with a vision and proven results. Cedar fair offers just that. We might not get a new ride every year. But we will get high quality attractions that will bring in the guests and are worth the wait. We will see the park become better maintained and cleanlier. I can't wait
JackGlass

User avatar
 
Posts: 505
Joined: July 29th, 2018, 2:37 am

Postby coasterfanatic on June 19th, 2024, 9:46 am
JackGlass wrote:In my opinion, this is the best thing that could have happened to Six Flags. It needed stable and Longterm leadership with a vision and proven results. Cedar fair offers just that. We might not get a new ride every year. But we will get high quality attractions that will bring in the guests and are worth the wait. We will see the park become better maintained and cleanlier. I can't wait
It’s a win for Six Flags for sure. Almost all of Cedar Fairs executive leadership is staying. Only Gary is being kept from Six Flags

I don’t like that Salim is chairman of the board. But it might not a long term thing for him though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
coasterfanatic

 
Posts: 533
Joined: July 27th, 2011, 2:07 am

Next

Return to Six Flags Great America Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests

Privacy Policy About Us Copyright Disclaimer E-Mail SFGAmWorld
COPYRIGHT - SFGAmWorld.com
All content and images on this site are Copyright 2001 - SFGAmWorld.com and may not be used without permission.
This is NOT the official site of Six Flags Great America, SFGAmWorld.com is not affilated or endorsed by Six Flags Great America.
SFGAmWorld.com does not make any guarantee on the accuracy of the information on this website and cannot be held responsible by the use of this information.
SIX FLAGS and all related indicia are trademarks of Six Flags Theme Parks Inc. ®, TM and © . The official Six Flags site can be found at SixFlags.com
BATMAN, SUPERMAN and all related characters and elements are trademarks of © DC Comics.
LOONEY TUNES and all related characters and elements are trademarks of and © Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.©
The Wiggles Pty Ltd. SCOOBY-DOO and all related characters and elements are trademarks of and © Hanna-Barbera.