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RMC EAGLE?

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Postby maxwellt on June 24th, 2019, 7:39 pm
Sven18 wrote:
maxwellt wrote:So I know that I havent posted in a while, but here I am again (huzzah!)

We have to point out that justice league dark rides are a whopping 20 million dollars, so this investments is possible.


Justice Leagues do not cost even close to 20M, that's absolute nonsense. SF has not built a single ride costing even close 20M since bankruptcy. The reason is they can't under their Capex formula. They have built inexpensive coasters & a bunch of clones for a reason, it's what they can afford under their strategy. FYI, the 2 5000ft RMC's, Steel Vengeance over 20M, Hugeki in Japan 26M, Gwai, unknown length, but will be large, the permits have the value at 20M and the other permits value relate are already a couple of million beyond that...the project will be 22+M.


Huh, I've heard from a couple sources that justice leagues are 20M. Might not seem like it, but with all the animatronic technologies, the Lazer systems and all the point calculating thingy mcjiggies (I can't wait to study mechanic engineering next year lmao) and even the track system the cars are all riding in, it will def get close to 20M (maybe the newer versions are that, idk).

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Postby Sven18 on June 24th, 2019, 7:58 pm
maxwellt wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
maxwellt wrote:So I know that I havent posted in a while, but here I am again (huzzah!)

We have to point out that justice league dark rides are a whopping 20 million dollars, so this investments is possible.


Justice Leagues do not cost even close to 20M, that's absolute nonsense. SF has not built a single ride costing even close 20M since bankruptcy. The reason is they can't under their Capex formula. They have built inexpensive coasters & a bunch of clones for a reason, it's what they can afford under their strategy. FYI, the 2 5000ft RMC's, Steel Vengeance over 20M, Hugeki in Japan 26M, Gwai, unknown length, but will be large, the permits have the value at 20M and the other permits value relate are already a couple of million beyond that...the project will be 22+M.


Huh, I've heard from a couple sources that justice leagues are 20M. Might not seem like it, but with all the animatronic technologies, the Lazer systems and all the point calculating thingy mcjiggies (I can't wait to study mechanic engineering next year lmao) and even the track system the cars are all riding in, it will def get close to 20M (maybe the newer versions are that, idk).

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Your so called sources are wrong. JL's are around 10M. If you actually knew SF finances you would have known they were full of it. ...ie....2017 SF added JL's at 3 parks,,GAdv, MM, and OG. Under their Capex formula they have about 78M for rides, So under the fallacy of Jl's costing 20M, they spent 60M in 3 parks and with the remaining 18M they built 3 - 4D free flys), 2 zamperla giant discoveries, zamperla mega disko, a drop slide complex, a skyscreamer, a water coaster, etc... LOL
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Postby jmanporty7 on June 24th, 2019, 8:07 pm
I’m not disbelieving you Sven.... but I’m just shocked at how Six Flags managed to purchase 3 dark rides for only $30 million total.


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Postby maxwellt on June 24th, 2019, 8:18 pm
Sven18 wrote:
maxwellt wrote:
Sven18 wrote:[quote="maxwellt"]So I know that I havent posted in a while, but here I am again (huzzah!)

We have to point out that justice league dark rides are a whopping 20 million dollars, so this investments is possible.


Justice Leagues do not cost even close to 20M, that's absolute nonsense. SF has not built a single ride costing even close 20M since bankruptcy. The reason is they can't under their Capex formula. They have built inexpensive coasters & a bunch of clones for a reason, it's what they can afford under their strategy. FYI, the 2 5000ft RMC's, Steel Vengeance over 20M, Hugeki in Japan 26M, Gwai, unknown length, but will be large, the permits have the value at 20M and the other permits value relate are already a couple of million beyond that...the project will be 22+M.


Huh, I've heard from a couple sources that justice leagues are 20M. Might not seem like it, but with all the animatronic technologies, the Lazer systems and all the point calculating thingy mcjiggies (I can't wait to study mechanic engineering next year lmao) and even the track system the cars are all riding in, it will def get close to 20M (maybe the newer versions are that, idk).

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Your so called sources are wrong. JL's are around 10M. If you actually knew SF finances you would have known they were full of it. ...ie....2017 SF added JL's at 3 parks,,GAdv, MM, and OG. Under their Capex formula they have about 78M for rides, So under the fallacy of Jl's costing 20M, they spent 60M in 3 parks and with the remaining 18M they built 3 - 4D free flys), 2 zamperla giant discoveries, zamperla mega disko, a drop slide complex, a skyscreamer, a water coaster, etc... LOL[/quote]Hmm, I'm confused. I've never heard of this whole "six flags finances." Where did you hear that one from. I've never heard of it and I would enjoy if you could elaborate more for me. Thank you for your feedback [emoji106]

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Postby Sven18 on June 24th, 2019, 8:42 pm
Go to the Financials thread, I have posted on it many times.
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Postby maxwellt on June 24th, 2019, 8:44 pm
Sven18 wrote:Go to the Financials thread, I have posted on it many times.
I couldn't find it, mind sending a link?

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Postby IssaCoaster on June 24th, 2019, 10:27 pm
I seriously think that the RMC conversion we are hoping for won't happen anytime soon. A 200ft drop hybrid? Mobius loop? That's two 200ft drops... we are talking about Six Flags here guys. That is not going to happen anytime soon. Way too much money. I would say the cost would be well over 30 million. Possibly into the 40 million range? That would be an insane project. This would also have to be started 2 years in advance. And longest coaster in the world? Have you guys seen the rollercoasters sixflags has been building lately? No where near 8000ft. I like the enthusiasm and all, but let us get real here, I don't think Six flags would see the worth in putting in so much capital into one park. The only way I could see this happening is if they somehow got the coaster sponsered or had several years of huge profits in the chain. Both of which are unlikely.

Now, I don't know how Six Flags would be able to cut the layout of the original coaster. It's an out and back design. If they RMC (probably when) I think they will be forced to cover the existing footprint. This is probably why Six Flags built Goliath instead of RMCing Eagle in the first place. Now, I think any version of RMC Eagle will be a huge project no matter how they go about it. I still think it would be a +20 million dollar project no matter what Six Flags does.

I am very pessimistic about what Sixflags would do to Eagle. The potential in the coaster is huge. There no way RMC and Six Flags can't see that. I just believe Six Flags is gonna go in and disgrace the original American Eagle layout by trying to take shortcuts to lower the price of construction. This why I want them to just GCI the track (don't think that will happen. Maintenance is better with hybrids). I know RMC wants to go crazy on this coaster though. And after all of their new coaster after Goliath, I bet they could make RMC Eagle the best coaster in the world if given the chance.

In conclusion, I don't expect a world class coaster from this even though the layout is almost forcing RMC to. I expect a short and cut up coaster. And I also don't see this happening anytime soon. But I do believe the RMC will happen, just not the RMC we want it to be.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 25th, 2019, 9:04 am
First off, I love your enthusiasm for Iron Eagle! I think RMC could make this into a fantastic world class coaster! I think this "could" happen with the following stipulations:
1) Our park gets nothing after this for like 4-5 years
2) A few other parks get nothing the year that this is built

Also, RCDB has length of Steel Dragon at 8133.2 feet. Is that not correct?

https://rcdb.com/1173.htm
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Postby Sven18 on June 25th, 2019, 9:43 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:First off, I love your enthusiasm for Iron Eagle! I think RMC could make this into a fantastic world class coaster! I think this "could" happen with the following stipulations:
1) Our park gets nothing after this for like 4-5 years
2) A few other parks get nothing the year that this is built

Also, RCDB has length of Steel Dragon at 8133.2 feet. Is that not correct?

https://rcdb.com/1173.htm


NONE OF THAT IS HAPPENING! SF's strategy is known, they reiterate constantly they aren't changing Capex %, they actually keep talking about lowering the %. They have no need to change, since people show up for cheap rides. No need to spend 20 or 30M on one ride, when they can get people to show up regardless and give other parks nothing in the process. Smaller & inexpensive stuff constantly is their MO.
Last edited by Sven18 on June 25th, 2019, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 25th, 2019, 9:46 am
Sven18 wrote:[quote=
NONE OF THAT IS HAPPENING! SF's strategy is known, they reiterate constantly they aren't changing Capex %, they actually keep talking about at lowering the %. They ave hno need, since people show up for cheap rides. No need to spend 20 or 30M on one ride, when they can get people to show up regardless and give other parks nothing in the process. Smaller & inexpensive stuff constantly is their MO.


What about if they get a new CEO? Isn't Jim Reid Anderson here just for a little while longer?
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Postby Sven18 on June 25th, 2019, 10:06 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Sven18 wrote:[quote=
NONE OF THAT IS HAPPENING! SF's strategy is known, they reiterate constantly they aren't changing Capex %, they actually keep talking about at lowering the %. They ave hno need, since people show up for cheap rides. No need to spend 20 or 30M on one ride, when they can get people to show up regardless and give other parks nothing in the process. Smaller & inexpensive stuff constantly is their MO.


What about if they get a new CEO? Isn't Jim Reid Anderson here just for a little while longer?


They have already made comments on the search & that they will essentially be looking to continue the same. The same people are on the board that are making the decision.
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Postby staticshadows on June 25th, 2019, 11:29 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Sven18 wrote:[quote=
NONE OF THAT IS HAPPENING! SF's strategy is known, they reiterate constantly they aren't changing Capex %, they actually keep talking about at lowering the %. They ave hno need, since people show up for cheap rides. No need to spend 20 or 30M on one ride, when they can get people to show up regardless and give other parks nothing in the process. Smaller & inexpensive stuff constantly is their MO.


What about if they get a new CEO? Isn't Jim Reid Anderson here just for a little while longer?

Keep in mind that Jim Reid-Anderson is one of the largest shareholders with 3,987,545 shares of stock which is 4.7% of the company. His stock holdings pay out more than $13 million in dividends per year ($3.28 per share).

Marshall Barber (CFO of Six Flags) said they are looking for someone who will work within the existing strategy and will only perform some minor tweaks to the strategy. So don’t expect any major changes.
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Postby maxwellt on June 25th, 2019, 12:08 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:First off, I love your enthusiasm for Iron Eagle! I think RMC could make this into a fantastic world class coaster! I think this "could" happen with the following stipulations:
1) Our park gets nothing after this for like 4-5 years
2) A few other parks get nothing the year that this is built

Also, RCDB has length of Steel Dragon at 8133.2 feet. Is that not correct?

https://rcdb.com/1173.htm
Yeah you are correct. I guess I was going with 8000 just to make it a nice number. It would surely be pricey though....

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Postby IssaCoaster on June 25th, 2019, 4:04 pm
Sven18 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:First off, I love your enthusiasm for Iron Eagle! I think RMC could make this into a fantastic world class coaster! I think this "could" happen with the following stipulations:
1) Our park gets nothing after this for like 4-5 years
2) A few other parks get nothing the year that this is built

Also, RCDB has length of Steel Dragon at 8133.2 feet. Is that not correct?

https://rcdb.com/1173.htm


NONE OF THAT IS HAPPENING! SF's strategy is known, they reiterate constantly they aren't changing Capex %, they actually keep talking about lowering the %. They have no need to change, since people show up for cheap rides. No need to spend 20 or 30M on one ride, when they can get people to show up regardless and give other parks nothing in the process. Smaller & inexpensive stuff constantly is their MO.

This is what I'm trying to say. This RMC project just isn't realistic. I should say though, the last couple of years, Six Flags has not seen the visitors that they were expecting to see over small the additions. I believe they missed the mark a couple times. They may have to change their strategy later if that keeps happening.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 25th, 2019, 8:43 pm
Leviathan cost 28MM.
They could just tear down Eagle (I know, it's hard to even say) and build something like that here in 2026, the park's 50th anniversary! That would bring in more guests! Make it 330 feet tall, just taller than Fury 325.

Yes, I realize it probably will NOT happen :( One can dream though.....
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 25th, 2019, 9:13 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:Leviathan cost 28MM.
They could just tear down Eagle (I know, it's hard to even say) and build something like that here in 2026, the parks' 50th anniversary! That would bring in more guests! Make it 330 feet tall, just taller than Fury 325.

Yes, I realize it probably will NOT happen :( One can dream though.....
It would probably cost a lot of money to teardown The Eagle as well.

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Postby JT2002 on June 26th, 2019, 5:10 pm
IssaCoaster wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:Leviathan cost 28MM.
They could just tear down Eagle (I know, it's hard to even say) and build something like that here in 2026, the parks' 50th anniversary! That would bring in more guests! Make it 330 feet tall, just taller than Fury 325.

Yes, I realize it probably will NOT happen :( One can dream though.....
It would probably cost a lot of money to teardown The Eagle as well.

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That's why Six Flags has been leaving it alone, they should save up (if that's possible under the company's current strategy) and just add a new show that would be much cheaper than a ride next year, so that they could retrack, or RMC Eagle
They say there isn't a spot in the park where rusting metal or peeling paint is at least 15 feet away from you.
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 26th, 2019, 6:23 pm
JT2002 wrote:
IssaCoaster wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:Leviathan cost 28MM.
They could just tear down Eagle (I know, it's hard to even say) and build something like that here in 2026, the parks' 50th anniversary! That would bring in more guests! Make it 330 feet tall, just taller than Fury 325.

Yes, I realize it probably will NOT happen :( One can dream though.....
It would probably cost a lot of money to teardown The Eagle as well.

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That's why Six Flags has been leaving it alone, they should save up (if that's possible under the company's current strategy) and just add a new show that would be much cheaper than a ride next year, so that they could retrack, or RMC Eagle

I'm wondering if a retrack is even worth it at this point. I don't know if that's a wise investment with the current situation with the ride. I think they would just RMC Eagle. Plus it would be less maintenance for the ride in general.
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Postby maxwellt on June 26th, 2019, 8:24 pm
^^^ thats what I'm thinking, don't get me wrong a gci retrack would be great and all, but that would likely be only a few million cheaper than doing a complete rmc rehaul of it. Think of it, it's redoing all the track and most likely a lot of structure to redo it for both gci and rmc. The only difference is rmc would be steel ibox verses a traditional wood track that gci would offer

*Edit- rmc would also have to add structure for a higher lift and drop, along with redoing certain sections to fit certain pieces of track.

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Postby Druxxx on June 27th, 2019, 8:51 am
Six Flags cannot tear down the Eagle. Which means at some point they have to re-track it or RMC it.
I really believe it is not a matter if it gets done, its when. I would rather see it re-tracked, but would be happy with either. Cost is a huge concern. Six flags has to have a plan on this already in the works. The Eagle will not last much longer without a reno. Leaving it SBNO would be a PR nightmare.
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 27th, 2019, 12:25 pm
Druxxx wrote:Six Flags cannot tear down the Eagle. Which means at some point they have to re-track it or RMC it.
I really believe it is not a matter if it gets done, its when. I would rather see it re-tracked, but would be happy with either. Cost is a huge concern. Six flags has to have a plan on this already in the works. The Eagle will not last much longer without a reno. Leaving it SBNO would be a PR nightmare.
Agreed. They probably have had a plan for years. Probably just waiting until the right time to execute it. GCI would be nice. But I don't think that's what's gonna happen as much as I would want it to. I just don't trust them with RMC because I'm sure they will cut a lot of the layout where they can.

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Postby anewman35 on June 27th, 2019, 5:49 pm
Druxxx wrote:Six Flags cannot tear down the Eagle. Which means at some point they have to re-track it or RMC it.
I really believe it is not a matter if it gets done, its when. I would rather see it re-tracked, but would be happy with either. Cost is a huge concern. Six flags has to have a plan on this already in the works. The Eagle will not last much longer without a reno. Leaving it SBNO would be a PR nightmare.


Are you saying they can't tear it down for PR reasons, or because they can't reuse the land? If you're saying the second, I don't think we've ever definitively determined if that's true. Portions might be too close to the tollway or Washington Street by current law, but they could 1. Try to change the law 2. Build in the other parts 3. Use some of the land for non-coaster purposes, which may have different restrictions.
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Postby B&MGuy35 on June 27th, 2019, 5:53 pm
If that is actually true. There’s also these amazing things called Zone Variances which is already what they do when something’s taller then allowed.


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Postby tp41190 on June 27th, 2019, 6:20 pm
This is Six Flags. Here is how it would probably go down:

2020 - Only 1 side operation, switching when needed
2021 - SBNO 1/2 the season. Only running 1 side permanently
2022 - SBNO with minimal 1 train and 1 side operation
2023 - all SBNO
2024 - RMC makeover. Open in late summer. Non racing. 1 side and 1/2 the layout.

And you know there will be nothing unique about it.

Hop > Hop > Wave turn > Zero G Roll > Hop > Zero G Roll > Hop > Brake.

We would have 2 identical ride experiences next to each other with Goliath.
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 27th, 2019, 6:43 pm
tp41190 wrote:This is Six Flags. Here is how it would probably go down:

2020 - Only 1 side operation, switching when needed
2021 - SBNO 1/2 the season. Only running 1 side permanently
2022 - SBNO with minimal 1 train and 1 side operation
2023 - all SBNO
2024 - RMC makeover. Open in late summer. Non racing. 1 side and 1/2 the layout.

And you know there will be nothing unique about it.

Hop > Hop > Wave turn > Zero G Roll > Hop > Zero G Roll > Hop > Brake.

We would have 2 identical ride experiences next to each other with Goliath.

I would disagree with you about them being a similar experience. I would say it would be similar to Outlaw Run or Twisted. AND.... just so you all know, even RMC's bad rollercoasters are good. I've been complaining about it getting the layout cut and not doing anything special, but just realize that even a crappy RMC makeover could make it one of the best coasters in the park. Lol. Honestly though, they better put some effort into that coaster and not make it a disgrace. It holds the record as the longest racing wooden coaster. It better have some sort of record other than "world's most dissapointing Iron horse conversion". Or "world's cheapest RMC conversion". If this coaster comes into the final break run at 60mph, imma be mad.
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