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RMC EAGLE?

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby ChicagoCoasters on May 30th, 2019, 2:12 pm
ledgeland wrote:
jmanporty7 wrote:I hope not, leave my precious boy RMC free!

If any refurbishment is to take place, just restore to it's glory days as best as possible. Just bring in GCI or Gravity Group to re-track it, replace any parts of the structure that needs replacement, and give it new trains.



100% this.


If they did this good we get to keep Eagle but will it boost ridership? Every time I ride American Eagle it is almost always a station wait or a walk on and that is with only one side running. Right now, Cedar Fair is blowing Six Flags out of the water with additions such as Copperhead Strike and Steel Vengeance. Six Flags needs to compete somehow and that is through American Eagle. Whether you like it or not RMC American Eagle is how you compete with Steel Vengeance. Imagine a new RMC hybrid at our park. Imagine how much attendance will go up. Once, Six Flags realizes this I feel American Eagle is in danger. I would miss American Eagle if it went away but Steel Vengeance is my number one. I rode Eagle a few days ago and it has only gotten worse. I would much rather have a dueling, maybe a hyper hybrid roller coaster at my home park. What do you guys think?
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Ragin Cajun and Iron Wolf went from Six Flags Great America to Six Flags America. I guess they weren't GREAT anymore.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 30th, 2019, 3:07 pm
^ This is assuming that Great America competes with Cedar Point and vice versa. I thought I read on one of the posts about finances that Cedar Point doesn't consider Great America a competitor?

Sven, you're the expert on this one. What are your thoughts about the 2 parks "competing" with each other?
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Postby jmanporty7 on May 30th, 2019, 11:09 pm
ChicagoCoasters wrote:
ledgeland wrote:
jmanporty7 wrote:I hope not, leave my precious boy RMC free!

If any refurbishment is to take place, just restore to it's glory days as best as possible. Just bring in GCI or Gravity Group to re-track it, replace any parts of the structure that needs replacement, and give it new trains.



100% this.


If they did this good we get to keep Eagle but will it boost ridership? Every time I ride American Eagle it is almost always a station wait or a walk on and that is with only one side running. Right now, Cedar Fair is blowing Six Flags out of the water with additions such as Copperhead Strike and Steel Vengeance. Six Flags needs to compete somehow and that is through American Eagle. Whether you like it or not RMC American Eagle is how you compete with Steel Vengeance. Imagine a new RMC hybrid at our park. Imagine how much attendance will go up. Once, Six Flags realizes this I feel American Eagle is in danger. I would miss American Eagle if it went away but Steel Vengeance is my number one. I rode Eagle a few days ago and it has only gotten worse. I would much rather have a dueling, maybe a hyper hybrid roller coaster at my home park. What do you guys think?


I want RMC to stay away from Eagle, we already lost some great wooden coasters to unneeded RMC conversions (ie Colossus SFMM and Roar SFDK). Not every wooden coaster out there has got to become an RMC. Plus, Boss at SFStL would be a much better option to compete with SteVe.
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Postby Sven18 on May 31st, 2019, 10:30 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ This is assuming that Great America competes with Cedar Point and vice versa. I thought I read on one of the posts about finances that Cedar Point doesn't consider Great America a competitor?

Sven, you're the expert on this one. What are your thoughts about the 2 parks "competing" with each other?


It's really SFGAm considers Cedar Point competition, but not vice versa. SF mentions CP in their annual report as a competitor as well as Kings Island, each being respectively 340 and 350 miles away. CF has never mentioned SFGAm in that regards. CP as a destination park w/ hotels and resorts does advertise in the Chicago market and many midwest cities. SFGAm does not advertise in what you would say is CP's backyard..ie...Cleveland area or western Ohio, etc...
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Postby Sven18 on May 31st, 2019, 10:38 am
jmanporty7 wrote:I want RMC to stay away from Eagle, we already lost some great wooden coasters to unneeded RMC conversions (ie Colossus SFMM and Roar SFDK). Not every wooden coaster out there has got to become an RMC. Plus, Boss at SFStL would be a much better option to compete with SteVe.


Colossus nor Roar were unneeded conversions,both coasters were very bad. They are way more popular and an immense draw over their predecessors which were coasters you could choose to miss on a visit and not have an ounce of FOMA. The conversions are must do rides on the visits as one of the betetr rides in each park. SFStl is in no way a competitor to CP and thus RMC Boss would not be to SV. The parks are 550 miles a part and nobody in their right mind with means, time, etc... is saying I could go to CP or SFStl and are picking SFStl
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Postby ChicagoCoasters on May 31st, 2019, 4:23 pm
Sven18 wrote:
jmanporty7 wrote:I want RMC to stay away from Eagle, we already lost some great wooden coasters to unneeded RMC conversions (ie Colossus SFMM and Roar SFDK). Not every wooden coaster out there has got to become an RMC. Plus, Boss at SFStL would be a much better option to compete with SteVe.


Colossus nor Roar were unneeded conversions,both coasters were very bad. They are way more popular and an immense draw over their predecessors which were coasters you could choose to miss on a visit and not have an ounce of FOMA. The conversions are must do rides on the visits as one of the betetr rides in each park. SFStl is in no way a competitor to CP and thus RMC Boss would not be to SV. The parks are 550 miles a part and nobody in their right mind with means, time, etc... is saying I could go to CP or SFStl and are picking SFStl


If a nearby Six Flags park was going to be a competitor to CP, then it would have to be SFGAm. No other SF park in the area of CP draws the crowds we do. That's why SF needs to RMC American Eagle instead of Boss. We would be transforming an old rough classic into a sleek, shiny, newborn version of a legendary roller coaster.
1.) Steel Vengeance 2.) Maverick 3.) Goliath (SFGAM) 4.) Top Thrill Dragster 5.) Mystic Timbers
Ragin Cajun and Iron Wolf went from Six Flags Great America to Six Flags America. I guess they weren't GREAT anymore.
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Postby jmanporty7 on May 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
If Eagle were to be RMC'd....

--> They HAVE to KEEP it a racing/dueling coaster (two separate tracks preferred... although if it did change to be a mobius loop like Twisted Colossus, they have to figure out a way to make sure the trains always duel. Look at West Coaster Racers for example)
--> No inversions... to help separate it enough from nearby Goliath
--> Keep the red, white, blue color scheme. Red side gets red I-box track, blue side gets blue I-box track. Repaint the entire support structure white.
--> Keep 'Eagle' in the name somehow... Steel Eagle, Iron Eagle, Screamin' Eagle(s), etc.
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Postby ChicagoCoasters on June 1st, 2019, 2:20 pm
jmanporty7 wrote:If Eagle were to be RMC'd....

--> They HAVE to KEEP it a racing/dueling coaster (two separate tracks preferred... although if it did change to be a mobius loop like Twisted Colossus, they have to figure out a way to make sure the trains always duel. Look at West Coaster Racers for example)
--> No inversions... to help separate it enough from nearby Goliath
--> Keep the red, white, blue color scheme. Red side gets red I-box track, blue side gets blue I-box track. Repaint the entire support structure white.
--> Keep 'Eagle' in the name somehow... Steel Eagle, Iron Eagle, Screamin' Eagle(s), etc.


I agree 100% besides the fact about no inversions. A top gun stall would be cool on this. What about a duel jojo roll.
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Postby gottastrata33 on June 1st, 2019, 2:28 pm
This entire topic is a migraine.
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Postby IssaCoaster on June 1st, 2019, 5:49 pm
I would only want the park to RMC Eagle if they were going to do it the right way and make it an amazing ride. Not chop it up and cut the length of the ride(it would probably still be a good ride). I see them refurbishing it though.GCI or RMC could really pull off a good refurbishment. But I think if there is some sort of work on Eagle, it is not happening soon. There are just other things the park can do to draw more guests than doing a huge coaster project like RMCing Eagle. The Demon is looking rough, Buccaneer Battle is crap, they have the loggers run and yankee clipped. Those spaces could be used to put a more cost friendly attraction than choosing to RMC Eagle. So in conclusion, I think it is definetly in the works to RMC Eagle or to do something else with it. I just don't think it will be anytime in the near future.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 3rd, 2019, 12:29 pm
Why is doing an RMC on Eagle a "migraine" ??
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Postby B&MGuy35 on June 3rd, 2019, 2:54 pm
Eagle will be done in 2021
At least that’s my prediction!
40 years

I think they will spend the money and do something great. I mean it’s obvious corporate loves us so there’s hope.


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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 4th, 2019, 9:01 am
B&MGuy35 wrote:Eagle will be done in 2021
At least that’s my prediction!
40 years

I think they will spend the money and do something great. I mean it’s obvious corporate loves us so there’s hope.


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I agree with you! Steel Eagle coming in 2021.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 4th, 2019, 9:05 am
jmanporty7 wrote:If Eagle were to be RMC'd....

--> They HAVE to KEEP it a racing/dueling coaster (two separate tracks preferred... although if it did change to be a mobius loop like Twisted Colossus, they have to figure out a way to make sure the trains always duel. Look at West Coaster Racers for example)
--> No inversions... to help separate it enough from nearby Goliath
--> Keep the red, white, blue color scheme. Red side gets red I-box track, blue side gets blue I-box track. Repaint the entire support structure white.
--> Keep 'Eagle' in the name somehow... Steel Eagle, Iron Eagle, Screamin' Eagle(s), etc.


Can someone please explain to me what exactly a Mobius Loop coaster is? I'm having a tough time visualizing how this works. I've read definitions on it and still can't quite understand how it's just ONE track and WHY would that be a good thing? If something is wrong, then both sides are down. What are major benefits/pluses of a Mobius Loop coaster?
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Postby AirTimeDaz on June 4th, 2019, 9:59 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
jmanporty7 wrote:If Eagle were to be RMC'd....

--> They HAVE to KEEP it a racing/dueling coaster (two separate tracks preferred... although if it did change to be a mobius loop like Twisted Colossus, they have to figure out a way to make sure the trains always duel. Look at West Coaster Racers for example)
--> No inversions... to help separate it enough from nearby Goliath
--> Keep the red, white, blue color scheme. Red side gets red I-box track, blue side gets blue I-box track. Repaint the entire support structure white.
--> Keep 'Eagle' in the name somehow... Steel Eagle, Iron Eagle, Screamin' Eagle(s), etc.


Can someone please explain to me what exactly a Mobius Loop coaster is? I'm having a tough time visualizing how this works. I've read definitions on it and still can't quite understand how it's just ONE track and WHY would that be a good thing? If something is wrong, then both sides are down. What are major benefits/pluses of a Mobius Loop coaster?


mobius is just a continuous loop so If you imagine instead of going into the station after you cycle the blue side, the track connects directly to the second lift hill to experience the ride again but this time on the red side. best RMC example would of course be twisted colossus. i would say the upside is the dueling/interactive aspect of going up the lift twice, and experiencing like a "2 rides in one." some complain that TC is not always dueling if dispatches are slower but to me that's a very minor downside.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 4th, 2019, 11:14 am
AirTimeDaz wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
jmanporty7 wrote:If Eagle were to be RMC'd....

--> They HAVE to KEEP it a racing/dueling coaster (two separate tracks preferred... although if it did change to be a mobius loop like Twisted Colossus, they have to figure out a way to make sure the trains always duel. Look at West Coaster Racers for example)
--> No inversions... to help separate it enough from nearby Goliath
--> Keep the red, white, blue color scheme. Red side gets red I-box track, blue side gets blue I-box track. Repaint the entire support structure white.
--> Keep 'Eagle' in the name somehow... Steel Eagle, Iron Eagle, Screamin' Eagle(s), etc.


Can someone please explain to me what exactly a Mobius Loop coaster is? I'm having a tough time visualizing how this works. I've read definitions on it and still can't quite understand how it's just ONE track and WHY would that be a good thing? If something is wrong, then both sides are down. What are major benefits/pluses of a Mobius Loop coaster?


mobius is just a continuous loop so If you imagine instead of going into the station after you cycle the blue side, the track connects directly to the second lift hill to experience the ride again but this time on the red side. best RMC example would of course be twisted colossus. i would say the upside is the dueling/interactive aspect of going up the lift twice, and experiencing like a "2 rides in one." some complain that TC is not always dueling if dispatches are slower but to me that's a very minor downside.


How do the trains NOT collide ever ? Is there a "switch" like on a railroad that controls which track a train goes to ? Perhaps if anyone has a picture of where a train "switches" to other side might help me!
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Postby JaminOut on June 4th, 2019, 11:28 am
Watch this video of Twisted Colossus.

https://youtu.be/JIcQOV6azSI

The ride layout has been altered so the two separate tracks are formed into one continuous track. No switches or stops. If American Eagle were to become möbius loop, I think the entrance or exit of the end helix would cross to the other side.
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Postby AirTimeDaz on June 4th, 2019, 12:17 pm
Can someone please explain to me what exactly a Mobius Loop coaster is? I'm having a tough time visualizing how this works. I've read definitions on it and still can't quite understand how it's just ONE track and WHY would that be a good thing? If something is wrong, then both sides are down. What are major benefits/pluses of a Mobius Loop coaster?


mobius is just a continuous loop so If you imagine instead of going into the station after you cycle the blue side, the track connects directly to the second lift hill to experience the ride again but this time on the red side. best RMC example would of course be twisted colossus. i would say the upside is the dueling/interactive aspect of going up the lift twice, and experiencing like a "2 rides in one." some complain that TC is not always dueling if dispatches are slower but to me that's a very minor downside.[/quote]

How do the trains NOT collide ever ? Is there a "switch" like on a railroad that controls which track a train goes to ? Perhaps if anyone has a picture of where a train "switches" to other side might help me![/quote][/quote]

the way it is now, eagle has 2 loading platforms. one for the red side and one for the blue. if it became mobius, there would only be a need for one platform because one track no longer enters the station, it just transitions to the second chain lift, while the next train dispatched goes up the first chain lift so, when loading is timed right, both sides can climb the lift together. hope i didn't confuse you more :?
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on June 4th, 2019, 1:03 pm
Thanks Ben and Daz! I now have a much better understanding of a Mobius loop coaster! Watching the video of Twisted Colossus really helped along with your detailed descriptions. You can see in the video where train on blue track crosses over to green track and climbs lift slowly so the "next" train on blue track can catch up.
So, with any Mobius, there can be at most 2 total trains then, unlike our Eagle which has 4 total trains .
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on June 4th, 2019, 3:24 pm
Actually there could be 3 trains that could be running.


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Postby JaminOut on June 4th, 2019, 4:09 pm
To make things more confusing, I think Twisted Colossus has four... maybe five.


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Postby maxwellt on June 24th, 2019, 5:34 pm
So I know that I havent posted in a while, but here I am again (huzzah!)

And I know this thread hasnt been used in a couple of weeks, but whatever Im gonna roll with it.

I think some people are forgetting the sheer potential in this roller coaster. Like, this could very possibly be one of the best coasters in the world, if not, the best coaster in the world. Let's take Steel Vengeance for example. AE has a 127ft height with a 147ft drop. Mean Streak had I believe a 161ft height, but a 155ft drop. Drop heights are very similar, along with a similar angled drop. I put it in google earth to see what the distance was from the start of the lift hill and the end of the first drop, and well...

AE1.png

MS1.png


I lowkey messed up on both of them a bit, but it got the job done. RMC eagle could very well have a 200ft drop, making another hyper coaster to come to the park. This could pair so well with bull, while this could have fast transitions and boatloads of airtime, while bull goes for a twisty and more graceful ride.

This would also put our park into having 5 Roller Coasters with a 175+ ft heights in Raging Bull, Maxx Force, V2, Goliath (finessing in drop height) and this Iron Eagle. Its somewhat impressive, but surely Six Flags could find a way to flex something like that.

The big record could be track length. if this was a mobius loop, this could become the worlds longest roller coaster, which would be huge for a park like us! If we look at my bottom two attachments, this is the distance of both american eagle and steel dragon 2000 2d on google earth (credit to airboss for bringing this point up with me, and of course creating the pictures lol)

AE2.png

SD1.png


We can see Eagle is slightly longer! Fantastic! Not to mention, this is assuming the helix is made into just a turnaround.

Okay, so now the cost of it...heres where the brick wall comes in

So I looked at a couple of rides, and new texas giant costed 10 million back in 2011, roughly around 11.5 million in todays standards (yay inflation). Thats for nearly 5000 feet of track, so if thats the price that would be incredible right? That means (if we are thinking around 8200ft of track to beat steel dragon) it would cost about 17ish million to build this. Lol its not that easy unfortunately. Then I looked at storm chaser, also 10 million dollars but back in 2016, which is about 10.6 million right now. That was for roughly 2750 feet of track, so that would be more like 30 million dollars. Overall, very pricey, however this is a park that is one of the best in the nation, and certainly is one of the best in the six flags chain (top 3 no doubt). We have to point out that justice league dark rides are a whopping 20 million dollars, so this investments is possible. Along with that, this topic has been brought up before, and if it wasnt for Goliath we wouldnt be talking about this right now, because it would have already have happened! Also, it will be hard to cut down on track, because it is an out and back while colossus was not.

Overall, this is bound to happen. The damage that Eagle is in would make it hard to repair to be worth it. It would cost a lot of money to completely retrack this, and the marketing that sf could do with an RMC eagle would be incredible, especially if it had the 200ft drop. Think of steel vegeance but with the dueling factor that makes twisted colossus so incredible, thats Iron Eagle ladies and gents. This thing could very well become the best coaster ever if (*when) it happens. However, I looked at this in the prefect world way. Six Flags could completely mess this up and abolish any greatness American Eagle had.

If they did this right, we will definitely miss American Eagle and all, only until we get our first rides on Iron Eagle ;)

Also, whoever had the idea of the eagles nest is a genius. To have a mid ride show to ensure dueling is incredible, and I praise whoever did that.

*Edit - idk if pics are blurry or not, but both of the distances of lift and drop are around 465 feet, and the 2d length of steel dragon is around 7400 ft and that of American eagle is around 7600 ft*
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Postby Sven18 on June 24th, 2019, 7:23 pm
maxwellt wrote:So I know that I havent posted in a while, but here I am again (huzzah!)

We have to point out that justice league dark rides are a whopping 20 million dollars, so this investments is possible.


Justice Leagues do not cost even close to 20M, that's absolute nonsense. SF has not built a single ride costing even close 20M since bankruptcy. The reason is they can't under their Capex formula. They have built inexpensive coasters & a bunch of clones for a reason, it's what they can afford under their strategy. FYI, the 2 5000ft RMC's, Steel Vengeance over 20M, Hugeki in Japan 26M, Gwai, unknown length, but will be large, the permits have the value at 20M and the other permits value relate are already a couple of million beyond that...the project will be 22M+.

maxwellt wrote:Along with that, this topic has been brought up before, and if it wasnt for Goliath we wouldnt be talking about this right now, because it would have already have happened! Also, it will be hard to cut down on track, because it is an out and back while colossus was not.


It's actually very easy to cut track length. SF has chopped every conversion they have commissioned.
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Postby jmanporty7 on June 24th, 2019, 7:26 pm
So 200 ft drop would mean RMC Eagle’s height would be 180 ft tall (20 ft difference), right? Just assuming because Eagle currently stands 127 ft tall with a 147 ft drop (which is a 20 ft difference)....


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Postby maxwellt on June 24th, 2019, 7:37 pm
jmanporty7 wrote:So 200 ft drop would mean RMC Eagle’s height would be 180 ft tall (20 ft difference), right? Just assuming because Eagle currently stands 127 ft tall with a 147 ft drop (which is a 20 ft difference)....


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Yep, the drop seems to go a bit underground (almost like it's a pit on the bottom of the drop) so assuming drop height will hit the 200ft mark and the actual height won't, regardless it would be considered a hyper.

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