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Way too early 2020 predictions!

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Postby UnclePennybags on February 20th, 2019, 2:24 pm
gottastrata33 wrote:...BB is one of our best themed attractions. It’s a family attraction & very interactive. I dont get the hate & I’m actually sick of reading you complain about it.

In my case, it's not so much that I hate Buccaneer Battle (BB). The land it sits on is large enough to hold other rides that would probably be more popular. Land is a premium for SFGAm, so any perception that a plot of land is being underused will earn the ire of many devoted park goers.

Now, I'm not one that only sees the value of roller coasters. Family rides are great. But in this, BB disappoints. The theming is nice, but the ride experience is so much less than I would have liked to see:

1) The water guns should be self-powered. BB is a ride that kids could really enjoy, but the hand cranks on the guns are too much work for little hands to operate. If the kids could just focus on shooting at stuff, and finding out what happens when they score a hit, the ride would be better.

2) With respect to "shooting at stuff", I recall that when Great America opened in 1976, there was a place called, "Northwest Shooting Gallery". You had a rifle that shot focused flashes of light at small targets next to various animatronics. If you hit a target, the associated animatronic would do something (the guy at the piano would start playing, the cuckoo would come out of the clock, etc.) There were a bunch of targets to shoot at. If BB had a slew of targets to shoot at that caused a slew of different things to happen, it'd be worth riding more often. With self-powered guns, I'd love to see boat wars, where it'd be possible to deliver a broadside against one of the boats crossing in the opposite direction. BB has so much potential, but it doesn't currently deliver.

3) I consider BB to be a water ride. However, I've been on BB when the temp was in the 90's and came away hotter after the ride than when the ride started. Sometimes you just don't get wet. You just bake in the sun for several minutes while getting a cramp in your arm from trying to generate a stream of water to hit targets that may not be working that day. Disappointing.

If they could upgrade this ride to address the issues I've stated above, I might change my mind. Until that happens, I'm OK with some other ride making better use of this space.
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Postby SaveTheWAVE on February 20th, 2019, 3:46 pm
^ I agree with everything you have written. Very well executed argument.
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Postby JackGlass on February 20th, 2019, 4:18 pm
Pictorium was nice too. It just didn't attract large crowds and it sat on valuable real estate.

Buccaneer Battle is the same way. It might look nice, but it doesn't attract large crowds.


An RMC Raptor (Clone or custom) would obviously attract much larger crowds than Buccaneer Battle. It would help boost flash pass sales, It would make money from on ride photos, and it would attract more people to the food stands and games. It would also give them a good reason to Blue Hawk Demon and further up their ticket and pass prices.

I wonder if Buccaneer Battle can be removed without destroying the ride itself. Because that would be a great addition for a park that's open year round like Magic Mountain or Discovery Kingdom.
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Postby gottastrata33 on February 20th, 2019, 7:59 pm
JackGlass wrote:Pictorium was nice too. It just didn't attract large crowds and it sat on valuable real estate.

Buccaneer Battle is the same way. It might look nice, but it doesn't attract large crowds.


An RMC Raptor (Clone or custom) would obviously attract much larger crowds than Buccaneer Battle. It would help boost flash pass sales, It would make money from on ride photos, and it would attract more people to the food stands and games. It would also give them a good reason to Blue Hawk Demon and further up their ticket and pass prices.

I wonder if Buccaneer Battle can be removed without destroying the ride itself. Because that would be a great addition for a park that's open year round like Magic Mountain or Discovery Kingdom.


Or leave it & put that awesome RMC where the go karts are. Although I’m much more on board with them creating an entire “family land” over there next to Little Dipper.
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Postby jmanporty7 on February 20th, 2019, 11:21 pm
I personally like the idea of Buccaneer Battle, and what it is trying to accomplish, but it isn't just getting the crowds that Six Flags was expecting. For that reason, BB should go. I think a Zamperla Giant/Giga Discovery could go here. And then Revolution get replaced by a Larson Flying Scooters.
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Postby JackGlass on February 21st, 2019, 5:27 am
gottastrata33 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:Pictorium was nice too. It just didn't attract large crowds and it sat on valuable real estate.

Buccaneer Battle is the same way. It might look nice, but it doesn't attract large crowds.


An RMC Raptor (Clone or custom) would obviously attract much larger crowds than Buccaneer Battle. It would help boost flash pass sales, It would make money from on ride photos, and it would attract more people to the food stands and games. It would also give them a good reason to Blue Hawk Demon and further up their ticket and pass prices.

I wonder if Buccaneer Battle can be removed without destroying the ride itself. Because that would be a great addition for a park that's open year round like Magic Mountain or Discovery Kingdom.


Or leave it & put that awesome RMC where the go karts are. Although I’m much more on board with them creating an entire “family land” over there next to Little Dipper.


That's another possibility! I'm personally not a fan of the upcharge attractions! I would rather Great America raise their ticket/pass prices to make up for the lost revenue and use the Go-Kart plot for a family spinning coaster or a Raptor, and use the Dare Devil Dive location for a giant Sky Screamer. When I look at those drone videos of Great America, a 400 foot Sky Screamer by Eagle would look amazing! That area is nowhere near the air space, so they would need to get Gurnee to scrap that height restriction!
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Postby rmceagle2021 on February 21st, 2019, 9:06 pm
JackGlass wrote:
gottastrata33 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:Pictorium was nice too. It just didn't attract large crowds and it sat on valuable real estate.

Buccaneer Battle is the same way. It might look nice, but it doesn't attract large crowds.


An RMC Raptor (Clone or custom) would obviously attract much larger crowds than Buccaneer Battle. It would help boost flash pass sales, It would make money from on ride photos, and it would attract more people to the food stands and games. It would also give them a good reason to Blue Hawk Demon and further up their ticket and pass prices.

I wonder if Buccaneer Battle can be removed without destroying the ride itself. Because that would be a great addition for a park that's open year round like Magic Mountain or Discovery Kingdom.


Or leave it & put that awesome RMC where the go karts are. Although I’m much more on board with them creating an entire “family land” over there next to Little Dipper.


That's another possibility! I'm personally not a fan of the upcharge attractions! I would rather Great America raise their ticket/pass prices to make up for the lost revenue and use the Go-Kart plot for a family spinning coaster or a Raptor, and use the Dare Devil Dive location for a giant Sky Screamer. When I look at those drone videos of Great America, a 400 foot Sky Screamer by Eagle would look amazing! That area is nowhere near the air space, so they would need to get Gurnee to scrap that height restriction!


We can only go up to 310 feet
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Postby Goku1910 on February 23rd, 2019, 4:35 pm
UnclePennybags wrote:
gottastrata33 wrote:...BB is one of our best themed attractions. It’s a family attraction & very interactive. I dont get the hate & I’m actually sick of reading you complain about it.

In my case, it's not so much that I hate Buccaneer Battle (BB). The land it sits on is large enough to hold other rides that would probably be more popular. Land is a premium for SFGAm, so any perception that a plot of land is being underused will earn the ire of many devoted park goers.

Now, I'm not one that only sees the value of roller coasters. Family rides are great. But in this, BB disappoints. The theming is nice, but the ride experience is so much less than I would have liked to see:

1) The water guns should be self-powered. BB is a ride that kids could really enjoy, but the hand cranks on the guns are too much work for little hands to operate. If the kids could just focus on shooting at stuff, and finding out what happens when they score a hit, the ride would be better.

2) With respect to "shooting at stuff", I recall that when Great America opened in 1976, there was a place called, "Northwest Shooting Gallery". You had a rifle that shot focused flashes of light at small targets next to various animatronics. If you hit a target, the associated animatronic would do something (the guy at the piano would start playing, the cuckoo would come out of the clock, etc.) There were a bunch of targets to shoot at. If BB had a slew of targets to shoot at that caused a slew of different things to happen, it'd be worth riding more often. With self-powered guns, I'd love to see boat wars, where it'd be possible to deliver a broadside against one of the boats crossing in the opposite direction. BB has so much potential, but it doesn't currently deliver.

3) I consider BB to be a water ride. However, I've been on BB when the temp was in the 90's and came away hotter after the ride than when the ride started. Sometimes you just don't get wet. You just bake in the sun for several minutes while getting a cramp in your arm from trying to generate a stream of water to hit targets that may not be working that day. Disappointing.

If they could upgrade this ride to address the issues I've stated above, I might change my mind. Until that happens, I'm OK with some other ride making better use of this space.


Few things not mentioned. BB's pirate audio no longer works, the targets and their respective effects are also gone, and the cranks have worn to the point they're difficult to turn. So not only was the crank a bad idea, but now they're harder to use.

This is why I knew a ride with a ton of effects was a terrible idea for a Six Flags park, we all know how the effects of TDK turned out. Last time I rode JLBFM it was pretty bad as well but not quite on the same level of terrible....SFStL's JLFBM I didn't even get to experience because the lights came on while in line and the ride stayed down all day.

Someone in the thread mentioned an RMC single rail in BB's spot and it's kind of funny because if we actually did get a Wonder Woman clone in that spot it would be in almost the same spot as California's RailBlazer.
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Postby gottastrata33 on February 23rd, 2019, 6:28 pm
Goku1910 wrote:
UnclePennybags wrote:
gottastrata33 wrote:...BB is one of our best themed attractions. It’s a family attraction & very interactive. I dont get the hate & I’m actually sick of reading you complain about it.

In my case, it's not so much that I hate Buccaneer Battle (BB). The land it sits on is large enough to hold other rides that would probably be more popular. Land is a premium for SFGAm, so any perception that a plot of land is being underused will earn the ire of many devoted park goers.

Now, I'm not one that only sees the value of roller coasters. Family rides are great. But in this, BB disappoints. The theming is nice, but the ride experience is so much less than I would have liked to see:

1) The water guns should be self-powered. BB is a ride that kids could really enjoy, but the hand cranks on the guns are too much work for little hands to operate. If the kids could just focus on shooting at stuff, and finding out what happens when they score a hit, the ride would be better.

2) With respect to "shooting at stuff", I recall that when Great America opened in 1976, there was a place called, "Northwest Shooting Gallery". You had a rifle that shot focused flashes of light at small targets next to various animatronics. If you hit a target, the associated animatronic would do something (the guy at the piano would start playing, the cuckoo would come out of the clock, etc.) There were a bunch of targets to shoot at. If BB had a slew of targets to shoot at that caused a slew of different things to happen, it'd be worth riding more often. With self-powered guns, I'd love to see boat wars, where it'd be possible to deliver a broadside against one of the boats crossing in the opposite direction. BB has so much potential, but it doesn't currently deliver.

3) I consider BB to be a water ride. However, I've been on BB when the temp was in the 90's and came away hotter after the ride than when the ride started. Sometimes you just don't get wet. You just bake in the sun for several minutes while getting a cramp in your arm from trying to generate a stream of water to hit targets that may not be working that day. Disappointing.

If they could upgrade this ride to address the issues I've stated above, I might change my mind. Until that happens, I'm OK with some other ride making better use of this space.


Few things not mentioned. BB's pirate audio no longer works, the targets and their respective effects are also gone, and the cranks have worn to the point they're difficult to turn. So not only was the crank a bad idea, but now they're harder to use.

This is why I knew a ride with a ton of effects was a terrible idea for a Six Flags park, we all know how the effects of TDK turned out. Last time I rode JLBFM it was pretty bad as well but not quite on the same level of terrible....SFStL's JLFBM I didn't even get to experience because the lights came on while in line and the ride stayed down all day.

Someone in the thread mentioned an RMC single rail in BB's spot and it's kind of funny because if we actually did get a Wonder Woman clone in that spot it would be in almost the same spot as California's RailBlazer.


Haha yes, it would be which would also be weird cause at one point we both had an inverted Vekoma boomerang there too.
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Postby JackGlass on February 23rd, 2019, 7:43 pm
Can't forget those awesome 3 armed Ferris Wheels too!
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on February 25th, 2019, 8:10 pm
In the Maxx Force teasers, one of them had the pit stop girls holding a sign that said "175 Meters Ahead". This was a clue for the height of the ride, 175 ft. But some people found that if you were to watch 175 meters from that railroad crossing spot, you would end up at the Sky Trail's former spot. Since in past years teasers they had teased attractions to come in the future like Southwest Amphitheatre's removal in the 2015 teasers and Pictorium's removal as well, I could see them teasing where the 2020 ride is going to be (which would be in Sky Trail's former place). I'm going to guess we'll see an Endeavor in that spot. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a Supergirl name like the one St. Louis is getting!
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Postby Goku1910 on February 25th, 2019, 8:13 pm
I wouldn't look that far into it....
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on February 25th, 2019, 8:57 pm
Hey, aren't we enthusiasts? I don't think a little speculation will hurt anyone. :) I always have fun puting things together..that is the point of this thread..right?
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Postby ernstwhere on February 25th, 2019, 10:36 pm
I love the idea of taking out the go karts, god that smell of gas and exhaust! and replacing it with a kids section. The former site of Fort Fun in the Marriott days and re-themeing 'Little Dipper' as a constellation in the Alaskan sky. While I'm at it with Marriott overlays wouldn't it be nice if V2 was re-branded as Tidal Wave? Painted in it's color scheme, with a similar light package? The Tidal Wave was just beautiful at night. Not foreseeable or possible but sentimental. I'm a Great America fan since 1976.
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Postby JackGlass on February 25th, 2019, 11:02 pm
Agreed. An Endeavor in Sky Trails old plot would look amazing!

If the did replace Buccaneer Battle with a Raptor. I just think of how cool that would look walking into County Fair and having Demon, A Raptor, An Endeavor and X-Flight all greeting you! lol
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Postby jmanporty7 on February 25th, 2019, 11:52 pm
Why do you all want a raptor so bad? Don't let your bias towards RMC ignore the fact that the capacity of this model is crap on a stick.
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Postby JackGlass on February 26th, 2019, 12:57 am
Raptors might have bad capacity. But they look really fun and don't take up a lot of space.

Buccaneer Battle, The Go karts, Kidzopolis. Those plots of land are too small for a large scale coaster But a Raptor would fit perfectly!
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on February 26th, 2019, 7:35 am
jmanporty7 wrote:Why do you all want a raptor so bad? Don't let your bias towards RMC ignore the fact that the capacity of this model is crap on a stick.

I got to tell you that raptors are one of the best coasters ever. I rode Wonder Woman at Fiesta Texas and that was an incredible experience I won't forget. Sure their capacity is not the greatest, but this ride is so awesome I can look pass that.
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Postby jmanporty7 on February 26th, 2019, 10:25 am
Why get a raptor when we can just wait for the T-rex to start rolling out? Its a larger version of the raptor with better capacity
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Postby Sven18 on February 26th, 2019, 10:53 am
jmanporty7 wrote:Why get a raptor when we can just wait for the T-rex to start rolling out? Its a larger version of the raptor with better capacity


LOL! SF can't afford big coasters. Trex's are going to be expensive and big coasters w/ large layouts. You might want to listen to Shalke's interviews. Trex's are not going to be in SF's price range....sub 15Mil
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Postby JackGlass on February 26th, 2019, 11:25 am
RMC has stated that T-REX only makes sense, price wise, for 300 feet+

There's not enough room in Great Americas current configuration for something that large. They would have to purchase that shopping complex across Milwaukee Ave. and move the employee parking lot across the street in order to open up that lrage plot of land in the back of the park. If that happened they could easily fit a Giga as well as several other large scale coasters.

I don't see that happening unless Corporate radically changes its current startegy or someone else purchases Six Flags.

It seems like Corporate has no interest in expanding Great America. Only removing unpopular/costly attractions (Space Shuttle America, Great American Raceway, Iron Wolf, Ragin Cajun, Jesters Wild Ride, Orbit, King Cahos, Pictorium, South West Ampitheater) and replacing them with more popular and cost efficient attractions.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on February 28th, 2019, 1:57 pm
I don't understand why we would want to keep Buccaneer Battle? And why should we keep Little Dipper? That ride is terribly inefficient . Put a new kids coaster there and get rid of that 60+ year old ride.
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Postby SaveTheWAVE on February 28th, 2019, 3:40 pm
Little Dipper is a piece of history. It will, in my opinion, eventually receive ACE Historic Coaster Landmark status.
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Postby staticshadows on February 28th, 2019, 6:26 pm
It's a shame Six Flags isn't working with Gerstlauer, a coaster similar to Hangtime at Knotts Berry Farm would be a great fit for the Buccaneer Battle space.

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Postby JackGlass on February 28th, 2019, 8:11 pm
Wow, that looks awesome!

Ever since that New Texas Giant incident, it seems like Six Flags really doesn't want to work with Gerstlauer. I wish they would bury the hatchet and start working with each other again. Those smaller Eurofighters are really cheap and would be great for smaller parks like La Ronde and St. Louis

As far as little Dipper goes. It's historic and takes up a small footprint. Plus, families love it. It does a great job at diversifying out Coaster collection.
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