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Postby n9yty on April 3rd, 2019, 3:37 pm
Sven18 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:Looks like both Illinois and New Jersey have passed $15 an hour minimum wage bills.

If Six Flags chooses to pass these costs onto customers, instead of absorbing them, I wonder how much a season pass will jump? Great America and Great Adventure are two of their largest parks, so this will be interesting to see what happens over the next several years as the increases are phased in.


SF knew this was coming & thus the preemptive hour cuts, in my opinion. They seem to have offset increased hourly wage by cutting hours of operation.


...and if they couldn't get reliable and hard-working employees when they were paying, from what I recall seeing, above minimum wage, how much ABOVE $15/hr are they going to have to pay to attract them now if they can get $15/hr elsewhere?

Yes, the park is expensive, as pointed out especially so for the people who try to do it one day without season passes, but I can only imagine how much MORE frustrating it is for them when they have to pay $13 to $15 for food and be tortued by long lines and slow unattentive service while they are paying that.

Labor costs are huge, and it benefits nothing if they don't start getting the right people in there, or if the management doesn't simply set the expectations of a proper level of service, train them properly and equip them for success... But as in many other areas, it seems that SF management really doesn't care, as long as people come, why worry about making it better? They think some repainting, redecorating and remodelling will make the experience much better... You could leave it all the same and improve the quality fo service and people would really notice you had done something they cared about. :)

That's been my frustration all along with the $15/hr minimum wage increase, it is artificial, so you will still have people doing the bare minimum level of work and giving a minimum of effort and now you are telling them they are worth that much more. If they truly worked hard, most of them in a relatively short time could probably land themselves better jobs and not be at the minimum level any more, but if the expectation is that you deserve more money just for showing up I think it is a negative. Sorry, I may be starting to veer off topic into a political thing which I don't want to do, so I'll stop there, but I think that it feeds into the operating costs and level of customer service/satisfaction.

The other thing that may be driving attendance down, or not, I can't say, is the seemingly increasing number of violent incidents or just outright rude behavior. Still small when taken over the course of the whole number of days of operation, but an issue nevertheless. The low cost passes have succeded in bringing in more a certain type of attendee, that's for sure, but I think overall it reduces the fun experience for everyone. It's not a race issue, it's a courtesy issue... If you aren't paying much, you don't feel you have to respect the park/property/other guests. It crosses all groups, it's a state of mind. But SF can't make people behave better, obviously, and maybe even charging more money wouldn't do it, but there comes a point when management has to start thinking about making things better to get organic growth and making it a place people want to come back to rather than playing games with shuffling things here and there and getting people to come one or two times but never to come again becuase you dropped the ball on quality. At some point, the easy dollars dissappear and if you haven't been paying attention you might never recover.

But I have just my opinion, welcome to have it corrected with statements of facts. :)
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Postby JT2002 on April 3rd, 2019, 9:14 pm
The new minimum wage won't reach $15 until 2025. I would think that this may draw more job applicants that would do a good job anyways.
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Postby Sven18 on April 22nd, 2019, 9:56 pm
JT2002 wrote:The new minimum wage won't reach $15 until 2025. I would think that this may draw more job applicants that would do a good job anyways.


Good employees is more about culture of the company and the expectations/standards they set. Other chains are not paying significantly more than SF, but places like Busch Gardens and Cedar Fair have in general way better employees. Disney employees are in most cases really goof, especially ride ops an they don't pay great.
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Postby Sven18 on April 24th, 2019, 3:01 pm
SIX FLAGS Q1 - REPORT 4/23/19


Revenue 128M decrease 1M
Income loss 69M increase 7M
EBIDTA loss 32M
Per Caps $48.48 (record) increase $2.40
Admissions per Caps $30.39 increase $2.34
In park per cap $17.99 increase $0.06
Attendance 2.2M decrease 189K

----the changing of the calendar(late Easter) compared to 2018 effected the numbers. So, not a good apples to apples comparison to previous year on attendance & revenue. Some visitors and revenue will bleed into Q2 as the had spring/Easter breaks which are often busy periods will be realized in Q2 by some parks.

----higher priced memberships are showing a positive effect with the record per caps. As stated many times SF realized they had to get more out of each pass/member as they had maxed out on the cheap pass customers.

Active pass base increase 5%
Deferred revenue 178M decrease 4M

---decrease in deferred revenue partially due to members reaching 13th month have revenue realized monthly. The 1st 12 months members revenue are realized the same as pass holders. As more people reach the 13 mth of membership there will be a shifting in revenue realization that will make historically lower quarters Q1 and Q4 have more revenue realized and shifted away from Q2 and Q3.


SF refinanced Term B debt with lower interest rates and also increased their borrowing to 800M from 584M They also increase their revolving credit from 250M to 350M

232M in share repurchases are authorized but none occurred in Q1. On the call they stated the refinancing was a priority. The said they will be looking for opportunities, pretty much buying on dips is the way to take that. SF stock fell 7% after results and then recovered most of that later in the day, SF might have stepped in as that would have been a good "opportunity" to repurchase shares.

Continuation of the Dubai park was stated as "unlikely and no further revenue will be realized till resolution". SF has a penalty clause they seemed to be alluding to, typical of such deals if one party breaks the contract.

The SF app and its updates are is now "in house."
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on April 25th, 2019, 8:00 am
^ Sven - Thanks for posting the results and the commentary.
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Postby ernstwhere on April 26th, 2019, 12:06 pm
Sven18 wrote:
JT2002 wrote:The new minimum wage won't reach $15 until 2025. I would think that this may draw more job applicants that would do a good job anyways.


Good employees is more about culture of the company and the expectations/standards they set. Other chains are not paying significantly more than SF, but places like Busch Gardens and Cedar Fair have in general way better employees. Disney employees are in most cases really goof, especially ride ops an they don't pay great.


Agreed. I was watching a video of Tigris' opening and the employees were leading guests in what appeared to be "The Macarena' during downtime. It's all about the culture of the company.
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Postby staticshadows on April 27th, 2019, 9:40 am
Parques Reunidos is about to be taken private. It will be interesting to see if they sell off some of the parks operated by Palace Entertainment. A lot of those parks seem like a good fit for Six Flags.
https://www.palaceentertainment.com/pick-a-park

http://www.inparkmagazine.com/parques-buyout-offer/
Buyout offer presented for Parques Reunidos; company will go private under three joint owners

April 26, 2019 — Today, Parques Reunidos announced that it has received an offer by Piolin Bidco, S.A.U. to purchase 100% of the company’s stock for approximately US$703 million. Piolin is the Spanish name for the Looney Tunes character Tweety Bird, who currently appears under license from Warner Bros at Parque Warner Madrid, one of Parques Reunidos’ parks.

According to filings with Spanish securities regulators, Parques Reunidos’ two largest current shareholders, Corporación Financiera Alba S.A and Groupe Bruxelles Lambert (GBL), are participating as minority shareholders in the Piolin joint venture, owning 26.03% and 26.96% of Piolin respectively. Alba and GBL currently are represented on the Parques Reunidos Board of Directors, with two seats each. The remaining 50.01% of the Piolin partnership is owned by EQT Infra IV, a fund managed by Swedish investment firm EQT Fund Management S.à r.l.

Parques Reunidos owns or manages under contract more than sixty theme parks, zoos, and attractions in Europe, Dubai, Australia and the United States.
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Postby JackGlass on April 27th, 2019, 4:19 pm
There's a rumor on Screamscape that Six Flags may be interested in selling 3 of their parks to another theme park operator, only Six Flags Over Texas was mentioned by name.
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on April 27th, 2019, 4:24 pm
Yeah I heard about that. Pretty sure people are saying it was the company that owns Dollywood and Silver Dollar City. I don't think I believe it.
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Postby staticshadows on April 27th, 2019, 4:28 pm
JackGlass wrote:There's a rumor on Screamscape that Six Flags may be interested in selling 3 of their parks to another theme park operator, only Six Flags Over Texas was mentioned by name.

The people at TexasThrillSeekers that started that rumor already retracted it after being called out on their nonsense.
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Postby JackGlass on April 27th, 2019, 5:02 pm
staticshadows wrote:
JackGlass wrote:There's a rumor on Screamscape that Six Flags may be interested in selling 3 of their parks to another theme park operator, only Six Flags Over Texas was mentioned by name.

The people at TexasThrillSeekers that started that rumor already retracted it after being called out on their nonsense.


Ok cool. It seemed like a strange rumor, seeing as Six Flags is adding all sorts of parks, and Over Texas is one of their largest parks.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on April 30th, 2019, 12:47 pm
^ And, wasn't Six Flags Over Texas THE first park they owned??
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Postby Coaster Justin on April 30th, 2019, 1:24 pm
It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Coaster Justin wrote:It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.


RIght, I read that above. My point about it being the first park makes the rumor even MORE absurd!
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Postby anewman35 on May 1st, 2019, 12:14 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Coaster Justin wrote:It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.


RIght, I read that above. My point about it being the first park makes the rumor even MORE absurd!


I don't necessarily think that's true. Today's leadership of Six Flags has absolutely no connection to the people who are around when Six Flags Over Texas started. I get that this isn't actually happening, but if they did get some amazing offer to sell it I don't think they would hesitate for a second just because 'it was our first park'.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 2nd, 2019, 11:09 am
anewman35 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Coaster Justin wrote:It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.


RIght, I read that above. My point about it being the first park makes the rumor even MORE absurd!


I don't necessarily think that's true. Today's leadership of Six Flags has absolutely no connection to the people who are around when Six Flags Over Texas started. I get that this isn't actually happening, but if they did get some amazing offer to sell it I don't think they would hesitate for a second just because 'it was our first park'.


I see your point. However, if they were to sell BOTH parks, then "Six Flags" as a brand becomes almost meaningless. The brand refers to the "six flags" that have flown over the state of TX.
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Postby Sven18 on May 2nd, 2019, 12:00 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Coaster Justin wrote:It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.


RIght, I read that above. My point about it being the first park makes the rumor even MORE absurd!


The first park means nothing, SF Corporate post bankruptcy is owned by an investment firm, which took on all the debt, bought out the previous owners, etc... If somebody actually offered 5 Billion for 3 parks SF Corporate & the partners at SFOT & SFOG, if those park were involved in the sale, would be asinine not to take it. SF Corporate owns 53% of SFOT & 31% of SFOG. In reality SF Corporate could technically lose SFOG from their brand if the partners who own the majority share sold to another chain or a private group..ie..Herschend.

The rumor was absurd b/c of the price tag of 5 Billion. The entire SF chain is not worth 5B, the market cap is 4.36B. SF would have agreed in 1 second if that offer was real at the price point, as the buyer would be overpaying astronomically for 3 parks.
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Postby Sven18 on May 2nd, 2019, 12:17 pm
JackGlass wrote:
staticshadows wrote:
JackGlass wrote:There's a rumor on Screamscape that Six Flags may be interested in selling 3 of their parks to another theme park operator, only Six Flags Over Texas was mentioned by name.

The people at TexasThrillSeekers that started that rumor already retracted it after being called out on their nonsense.


Ok cool. It seemed like a strange rumor, seeing as Six Flags is adding all sorts of parks, and Over Texas is one of their largest parks.


SF is not adding all sorts of parks, they have operating leases to 5 new parks in the last year in the EPR deal and the Rockford waterpark. Operating leases are in expensive, don't tie them down long term, and if the park isn't producing it;s an easy exit with no big loss. This is not like the major capital(debt taken out) to actually by parks & the big risk if the parks aren't producing, the story of the 90's & pre bankruptcy
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 3rd, 2019, 11:29 am
Sven18 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
Coaster Justin wrote:It's a rumor that turned out to be false and dated.


RIght, I read that above. My point about it being the first park makes the rumor even MORE absurd!


The first park means nothing, SF Corporate post bankruptcy is owned by an investment firm, which took on all the debt, bought out the previous owners, etc... If somebody actually offered 5 Billion for 3 parks SF Corporate & the partners at SFOT & SFOG, if those park were involved in the sale, would be asinine not to take it. SF Corporate owns 53% of SFOT & 31% of SFOG. In reality SF Corporate could technically lose SFOG from their brand if the partners who own the majority share sold to another chain or a private group..ie..Herschend.

The rumor was absurd b/c of the price tag of 5 Billion. The entire SF chain is not worth 5B, the market cap is 4.36B. SF would have agreed in 1 second if that offer was real at the price point, as the buyer would be overpaying astronomically for 3 parks.


It's all about brand identity. . Why would a company have a meaningless name?
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Postby staticshadows on May 3rd, 2019, 12:41 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:It's all about brand identity. . Why would a company have a meaningless name?

You are getting hung up on something that the company would not care about. Not many people care why the name is Six Flags. Do you think Cedar Fair was going to change their name when they put Valleyfair up for sale in 2009?
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 3rd, 2019, 1:18 pm
staticshadows wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:It's all about brand identity. . Why would a company have a meaningless name?

You are getting hung up on something that the company would not care about. Not many people care why the name is Six Flags. Do you think Cedar Fair was going to change their name when they put Valleyfair up for sale in 2009?


My point is this: IF (capital IF) they sold off both TX parks, their brand name becomes meaningless. I hope that makes sense. Six Flags means nothing as a brand if you don't understand the history behind the name.
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Postby Sven18 on May 3rd, 2019, 4:20 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
staticshadows wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:It's all about brand identity. . Why would a company have a meaningless name?

You are getting hung up on something that the company would not care about. Not many people care why the name is Six Flags. Do you think Cedar Fair was going to change their name when they put Valleyfair up for sale in 2009?


My point is this: IF (capital IF) they sold off both TX parks, their brand name becomes meaningless. I hope that makes sense. Six Flags means nothing as a brand if you don't understand the history behind the name.


You're getting caught up on enthusiast minutia and perceived importance of a "name origin." to you. 99.9% of people that go to SF parks have no clue about the "history behind the name." If you asked most people that go to SF parks they would not know what was the original park. Most people that go to SF park don't even know they went bankrupt. An overwhelming number of people that go to parks know nothing about anything related to SF name, business, finances, corporate, etc.... Most people only know a very very limited amount of info & only about their home park, I have gone to almost every park & talked to many people, they know very little & don't care to take the time to know. THE BRAND to most people means there is a park I go to close to me & it's pretty cheap, which they like. The "Brand" is like the "cheap ride" strategy discussion. Most patrons don't care, they see a superloop and are great, my park got something. Enthusiasts, are another superloop..damn it.
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Postby anewman35 on May 3rd, 2019, 6:18 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
staticshadows wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:It's all about brand identity. . Why would a company have a meaningless name?

You are getting hung up on something that the company would not care about. Not many people care why the name is Six Flags. Do you think Cedar Fair was going to change their name when they put Valleyfair up for sale in 2009?


My point is this: IF (capital IF) they sold off both TX parks, their brand name becomes meaningless. I hope that makes sense. Six Flags means nothing as a brand if you don't understand the history behind the name.


Nobody cares. What goes Google mean? What does Amazon mean? What does Apple mean? Most people who go to Six Flags have absolutely no idea what Six Flags means, beyond it being a Theme Park chain. Except for perhaps a period of slight confusion if Six Flags Over Texas had to change their name (or if it kept its name but became unconnected from the overall chain), nothing would change. The Six Flags 'brand' would not change at all.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on May 6th, 2019, 9:06 am
anewman35 wrote:Nobody cares. What goes Google mean? What does Amazon mean? What does Apple mean? Most people who go to Six Flags have absolutely no idea what Six Flags means, beyond it being a Theme Park chain. Except for perhaps a period of slight confusion if Six Flags Over Texas had to change their name (or if it kept its name but became unconnected from the overall chain), nothing would change. The Six Flags 'brand' would not change at all.


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you (and Sven) about brand identity. Brands like Apple, Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, P&G, Disney, and YES Six Flags have a meaning with their customers. Customers have thoughts and opinions about the brands.
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Postby Jodon on May 6th, 2019, 10:19 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:
anewman35 wrote:Nobody cares. What goes Google mean? What does Amazon mean? What does Apple mean? Most people who go to Six Flags have absolutely no idea what Six Flags means, beyond it being a Theme Park chain. Except for perhaps a period of slight confusion if Six Flags Over Texas had to change their name (or if it kept its name but became unconnected from the overall chain), nothing would change. The Six Flags 'brand' would not change at all.


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you (and Sven) about brand identity. Brands like Apple, Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, P&G, Disney, and YES Six Flags have a meaning with their customers. Customers have thoughts and opinions about the brands.


I think you are missing their point. I believe that they are not arguing that the brands do not have an identity, but they are saying that the meaning behind the brand names do not mean much/anything to most consumers. I can guarantee you that if you asked every person walking in to Great America, they would have a general idea about what the Six Flags brand is, but have zero clue how Six Flags started or became the corporate name.
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