a question on ae

by **CoasterDave316** on March 18th, 2003, 9:53 pm

If they weren't racing me and my brother would help them race. I would go on one train with and he would go on the other side. He usually wears a hat, so he takes his time putting it in the bins. Then he acts like he has trouble with the lapbar or something, basically stalling as much as possible so that both sides dispatch around the same time. Worked great, got alot of rides on Eagle last year when it was racing doing this. It only works though if the trains are somewhat close together though.

by **coasterzak** on March 18th, 2003, 10:29 pm

Was there a regular winner when you guys raced? I raced on blue's side every time and it lost... I thought maybe it had something to do with the modifications for the backwards train but you can never be too sure. Maybe the blue just lost and I need to accept that. :cry:

by **greatamerica2003** on March 19th, 2003, 12:05 am

Well the red train will always win when they race because:A. It follows the inside of the barrel helix, thus a shorter trackB. The blue brakes at the top of the barrel are always tighter (for some unknown reason)It has nothing to do with the train going backwards. Red always won with both sides forwards as well.

by **coasterguy** on March 19th, 2003, 8:58 am

I don't Agree with you becuase I raced at least 5 times last year and it was pretty much the same if they let the trains go at the same time. It is supposed to be the heavier train will win.

by **greatamerica2003** on March 19th, 2003, 11:54 am

I'll agree with you that it's pretty close, and if the blue train is heavier it might win, but.....Are you telling me you disagree with physics? I'm going from the standpoint that if both trains were full (or if they were both empty) or had the same weight the red train would still win.

by **Aero737** on March 19th, 2003, 6:00 pm

About the physics part. Blue can win if it is heavier. The more weight it has, the faster it will drop. It will drop faster, because the increased weight will increase terminal velocity (i dont think the ride comes anywhere close to terminal velocity) but it also cuts through air faster because of inertia. If you drop a penny and a penny shaped lead weight off a tower, the lead weight would land faster. This is because it is heavier and friction due to air has less of an effect. If there was no Friction in the air both objects would hit the ground at the same time, and both rollercoaster trains would reach the same speed. And example of weight is Millennium Force. They need to add sand dummies every test run so the train wont vally.Because of this, it is possible for the blue train to win, but the red side does have a shorter track.

by **Timmy179** on March 19th, 2003, 6:45 pm

those are some big words..

by **CoasterDave316** on March 19th, 2003, 7:08 pm

Another disadvantage Blue side has is that it is longer than the red side. Not only does it have the outside of the helix, but after the helix it has to cross under and over to the other side of the Eagle. But to make up for this those who have raced on Eagle can probally tell you that the Blue sides lift is faster than the Red side and if they both leave the station at the same time the Blue side will go over the hill first. Then the red side usually catches up at the top of the helix if the trims are on, if not it catches up midway down the helix.

by **T_Biggs** on March 19th, 2003, 9:28 pm

No offense areo, but your physics is flawed. Air is negligable. The car would be effected in such a way that it might be 1 or 2 mph different. Force on the drop, on the other hand, would be increased by quite a large number. Terminal velocity, where does this come into play in a 140 foot drop? It is much higher than 70 mph. Gravity has an acceleration of -9.8 m/s. No matter how much weight you have, it is going to stay -9.8 unless you have Notwen's Machine (it reverses all of Newton's laws, it's a really handy machine!)And for some reason I don't believe sand dummies on MF all the time. I recall on a coaster show, a lone ride op and camera equipment on the train. I would have a very hard time believing that camera equipment can weight the same as 20+ sand dummies. And then, what would they do on extremely dead days where only 4 people are on it at a time? You're physics are flawed. Move to Pluto, then maybe they would work, but in actuality they wouldn't, because Pluto has the same laws, just a different acceleration due to gravity. :roll:

by **greatamerica2003** on March 20th, 2003, 1:42 pm

I never said that the blue train could not win. I said that if both trains weighed the same, then the red would win, ALWAYS.

by **Aero737** on March 20th, 2003, 4:35 pm

well not all my physics are flawed. I know that no matter what the car will fall with -9.8 m/s². I know that the trains will achieve the same speed if there was no friction. But there is friction, and there is Inertia. The more mass an object has, the harder it is to change its speed. Therefore, a heavier train will have more inertia and resist a change in velocity. I honestly find it hard to believe that weight is not a factor if it sandbags are used on testing so many rides. I still hold firm to my belief that the heavier train would win (if the tracks were the same length).

by **coasterzak** on March 20th, 2003, 5:04 pm

Sorry guys, didn't mean to start such a debate. How could they possibly design a racing coaster with one side longer than the other? That just doesn't make sense at all.

by **JulieBoolie** on March 20th, 2003, 6:39 pm

aero737 wrote:If you drop a penny and a penny shaped lead weight off a tower, the lead weight would land faster.

Not true... The weight does not matter in this case- the shape of the object matters because of the way the air flows around it to cause friction. If they are both the same shape, they should land at the same time...

by **coasterguy** on March 20th, 2003, 7:06 pm

So If your have a piece of paper , and a block of concrete they same shape of the paper they will land at the same time. Sorry but that is not true. Air pressure hold they paper up longer becuase it is lighter than a piece of paper.

by **JulieBoolie** on March 20th, 2003, 7:16 pm

Those aren't the same shape... there's different air friction on them... I'm saying if you drop a 1 pound ball and a 2 pound ball and they're the same size they'll land at the same time...

by **CoasterMan629** on March 20th, 2003, 7:25 pm

Well if they do change it unsuspectingly then I will give the word.The only thing I do not like about the going backwards is I got a sorta bad nausea attack (< my new symptom) when going on the final bunny hills. :shock:

by **coasterguy** on March 20th, 2003, 8:42 pm

JulieBoolie wrote:Those aren't the same shape... there's different air friction on them... I'm saying if you drop a 1 pound ball and a 2 pound ball and they're the same size they'll land at the same time...

So if I Stand on a ladder 20 feet of the ground and drop a 1lb ball and a 50lb ball at the same time they will hit the ground a the same time. Sorry but I still don't agree with you.

by **SfgamFreak03** on March 20th, 2003, 9:38 pm

What Julie is saying is true. I have no clue about your theory though. It all depends on pretty much the mass.Take Physical Science or Physics and you well learn about all that stuff.

by **Aero737** on March 20th, 2003, 9:51 pm

Ideally both objects would land at the same time. This can be observed by watching an astronaut drop a feather and a hammer on the moon and both land at the same time. But on earth each land at different times. This is because of wind. I'm sure if you dropped a penny and a lead weight off any high object (taller than the 20 foot ladder your all talking about) they would land at different times. The penny would tumble more and the force of friction due to wind would have more of an effect. Ideally (if there was no force of friction) both objects/coaster trains would reach the same speed, but the heavier object would still have more inertia. Inertia keeps the heavy object moving faster because it requires more friction to slow the train.

by **coasterguy** on March 20th, 2003, 9:53 pm

Well then why do roller coasters designers say that the heavier train wins on a racing coaster. Find me where it say that the balls will hit the ground at the same time on the internet or something. So a ping pong ball and a bowling ball will hit the ground at the same time if droped from the same height and at the same time

by **Aero737** on March 20th, 2003, 10:06 pm

On earth the bowling ball would win before the ping pong ball, but in a vacuum both would hit the ground at the exact same instant. That is because the force of gravity isnt dependent on mass. On earth mass means inertia and the more inertia there is, the more friction required to slow the object. A ping pong ball isn't very massive so a friction slows it more than a very massive bowling ball. And on coasters, the heavier train will win (if the tracks are the same length).

by **JulieBoolie** on March 20th, 2003, 10:09 pm

http://websql.physics.ucla.edu/demos/me ... _balls.htm

by **coasterguy** on March 20th, 2003, 10:11 pm

Well i was patially right in saying that the heavier train will win but not about the heavier ball hitting the ground faster. But I don't want to agrue about it anymore!

by **TooTired** on March 21st, 2003, 1:12 am

All objects fall at the same rate. If two object are they exact same size and shape they will fall at the same right regardless of how heavy they are.Go into a bowling alley and drop two balls of the exact same size but different weight and observe.

by **Aero737** on March 21st, 2003, 11:01 am

I know inertia has nothing to do with gravity, but it does have to do with how much speed the train will retain through the course of the ride.

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