tp41190 wrote:From what I have experienced, even when they move rides to other parks they are still not that popular and are rarely "a huge hit". If they added Chang the hype would die pretty fast. Besides, just really try to image a big Yellow B&M in the park...it just doesn't fit. And I really hope Six Flags has learned from there past that they can't just move/add rides on concrete.
Yes Yes, tp41190 you are leading authority on any ride that has been removed from one park and added to another.
Little Dipper obviously is going to suck because well it was at Kiddieland for so many years, it cant possibly be a good ride anymore. Damn, Six Flags really screwed up adding that one in. Goliath at SFFT, that ride HAS to suck I mean its been relocated TWICE! oh the horror. And lets not get me started on Dominator i mean its only one of the best floorless coasters out there but, damn that ride not only has changed names, but HAS CHANGED THEME PARK OPERATORS AS WELL!!!!1111ONE
Listen, I have been reading the little pissing contest you all have been having about adding this not adding that, SF sucks because of this blah blah blah.
And I have come to a few conclusions:
1. Teenagers dont know jack diddly about how the real world works. If they did, they'd know that in the real world Businesses are out for one thing and one thing only AND THATS MONEY. Theme parks carter to families, your know your mommy and daddies (the ones that give you your allowance when you take the garbage out to the street)
They could careless about ACERs, CoasterBuzzers, TPR, SFGAMWorld, and yes sorry to say Coasterfanatics.
When a park adds a new attraction its to generate a buzz. Whether that be Wiggles World, Hurricane Harbor or Chang its added because the company thinks its going to pull in more.... say this with me MONEY!!
2. If you come on a park fan site like this and instantly say "SIX FLAGS SUCKS BECAUSE THEY HAVENT GOTTEN NETHING THRILLING SINCE ______" You are immediately going to be regarded as a moron. Especially if you follow that sentence with "AND IM NOT GETTING MY MOM TO RENEW MY SEASONS PASS THIS YEAR!!!!1111"
The real reason you probably arent getting your pass renewed is because your mom or dad or whoever is tired of driving your sorry ass to the park every weekend to see if you can "BREAK THE DEMON'S CONSECUTIVE RIDES IN A ROW RECORD!"
3. True coaster fans you know those who can appreciate really what Shapiro is doing with Six Flags know what the company is trying to do, and offers up detailed and exact explanations as to why Buccaneer Battle was a great addition while removing a ride like Deja Vu while crappy was nearly a certainty.
4. And this is very important so adjust your glasses, change the brightness on your screen or squint your eyes so you can read this one:
Cedar Fair is Six Flags part 2 circa 2000, (Yeah, I said it) The company is bleeding money (nearly 2 Billion dollars) and tried to expand really rapidly (sound familiar?) They spent this past off season $50 million plus on two coasters..(where have we heard that before?) Whereas Shapiro would have spent that same amount of money and added 6 coasters and probably had some left over for a 7th attraction at a 7th park. Like it or not Shapiro NOT Kinzel knows what they are doing and are working to make Six Flags a profitable business again.
Its not easy to turn an aircraft carrier around but its clear that Shapiro is the right man at the head of the ship.
So I end this rant with this.
If you think you know the state of affairs in the amusement park industry you dont, if your going to threaten the park by saying your not going to the park, your a liar.
BTW Just for future reference Cedar Point DOES NOT compete head to head with Great America so dont say that anymore.
A few things about your post. Not everyone on here is a teenager who gets money from there parents. I am on my own and I work and pay for everything myself (school, gas, rent, bills, trips, ect). So even I know what people are getting at on here. To me, it's like "why would I pay all the money if I'm going to be bored". I did not say anything about the company doing terrible. True the park doesn't care about enthusiasts, but it's not like families are the only people coming into the park. A main group of the people coming in to spend money are, as you call them, young teens who have there parent's buy them everything. Eventually if the park doesn't add anything to cater to them they will stop spending money to go. Then the majority of people coming into the park will be families...then it's the opposite side of the spectrum. That would take a long time to happen and most likely not happen, but if they continue the trend it's not like it's out of the question.
And I still think that moving Chang to the park is a terrible idea. I am surprised that you are trying to trash talk my post when I am actually disagreeing with moving Chang to the park. Adding something like a GCI would attract families, that is that you said the park needs...nothing wrong with that.
Also you need to just accept users opinions and not try to change them.
tp41190 wrote:A main group of the people coming in to spend money are, as you call them, young teens who have there parent's buy them everything. Eventually if the park doesn't add anything to cater to them they will stop spending money to go.
A lack of thrill rides will not stop the pre-16 tweens/teens from coming. They have no car and the best place their parents will let them go to is SF. Plus with parents fronting the bill, why look a gift horse in the mouth.
tp41190 wrote: A main group of the people coming in to spend money are, as you call them, young teens who have there parent's buy them everything. Eventually if the park doesn't add anything to cater to them they will stop spending money to go. Then the majority of people coming into the park will be families...then it's the opposite side of the spectrum.
Six Flags wants the family dollar first and foremost, and they could careless if coaster enthusiasts come into the park. Why you may ask? the answer is simple..... Money.
Six Flags wants that majority of people coming through the gates to be families, families dont typically cause trouble or make a mess in the park (Think of all the Keep my park clean ads etc)
Bottomline in this, Great America is a park that has the unique and rare distinction of not having any major park within 300 miles of it that will be seen as a major competitor. Therefore Six Flags doesnt need to add a 30 million dollar whatever every 2 years, and can and does add Family friendly attractions that will ultimately draw in more of what Six Flags wants.
Why is it that so many people here, let me add, so many adults (30+) complain that Teens are:
- No-goods that get all their money from parents. - No-goods that go to the park as a day-care center. - No-goods that are either emo, or punks.
When, so many complaining about us are upwards of 35. Within 20+ years, times have changed. Yes my parents pay for my season pass. Although I pay for each visit, by either using Public Transit, or by getting rides, and pay for food at the park. I visit the park once or twice a week, and I don't see how people use it as a day care.
If any one on here took a minute to get to know people, they would know their personality and such. But rather, ya'll automatically assume that teens are stupid, punks, who hate the world.
Sure Six FLags is all about money I get it, but why on earth do they give Magic Mountain a new thrill addition yearly, but can't give us one in ** years.
david wrote:Why is it that so many people here, let me add, so many adults (30+) complain that Teens are:
- No-goods that get all their money from parents. - No-goods that go to the park as a day-care center. - No-goods that are either emo, or punks. but why on earth do they give Magic Mountain a new thrill addition yearly, but can't give us one in ** years.
Several things here:
First of all, The complaint about teens is true whether or not you like it its the truth, no one said the truth didnt hurt. The fact is MANY teens treat the parks like day-care centers, are punks, etc etc. Maybe if the teens that went to the parks acted less like children and more like young adults, then there wouldnt be problems but i digress.
Secondly, on your bit about SFMM, SFMM is the polar opposite of SFGAM, why? Well while one park (SFGAM) has no competition, SFMM has: KBF, DISNEY, USH, Santa Monica Pier, Legoland. etc etc etc. ALL of those parks and theres probably more, but all of them want Six Flags' family dollar. Well guess what. Since for so long Six Flags has had this perception of..uh-oh.... Being a "day-care center" for unruly brat teenagers, and raise hell and trash everything in site" Families are sure as hell NOT going to go to SFMM.
That was until Shapiro got on board. Remember he wanted SFMM gone. Let someone else deal with Burke's and co's mess he probably thought, This of course after reading a blog post about two (oh shit) teens having sex at SFMM during Fright Fest back in 2007.
So basically, Six Flags wanted to unload the park, but no one other the condo developers wanted to have the red headed step child on Amusement parks, so instead Six Flags said you know what... Fine, lets see SFMM under Shaprio Rules. And well I think actions speak louder then words, SFMM cleaned up its image somewhat, families are now considering SF instead of Disney and KBF and whatever and guess what? They get new marketable attractions every year or two since everyone else and the uncle is in the SoCal market.
And there you have it basically in a nutshell (a long winded one) your answer.
And before you go boo hooing about "Adults 35+" complaining about Teens...... Ill have you know that Im 26 years old and 95% of the staff on this site, pretty much all of whom will agree with most probably not all of what im saying, but most of what im saying is my age or...YOUNGER!
Sure Six FLags is all about money I get it, but why on earth do they give Magic Mountain a new thrill addition yearly, but can't give us one in ** years.
No, you really dont get it. Here is some simple math for you to ponder.
SFGAm is in the center of a circle 500 miles in diameter(250 miles in every direction), total major competitors within that circle = 0. as in Zero.
IB, WI Dells, MiAdv, Grizzly Jacks and whatever else you come up with don't count as competition for a major regional themer such as SFGAm.
SFMM, Draw that same Circle and even with the Ocean taking up about half the circle you have, the entire city of Las Vegas that competes for adult recreational spending money, 2 Major Disney Parks, Knotts Berry Farm, Universal Studios, Seaworld, and Legoland. Total Competitors - 6 +Vegas
So in the simplest terms, SFGAm has little real competition for peoples amusement park bound entertainment dollar. People will go to SFGAm or go nowhere at all.
SFMM has to compete with 6 different major amusement parks (plus around a dozen smaller ones) and Las Vegas for peoples money. If SFMM doesnt add major new attractions, people wont show up due to the reputation is has, the park will be empty their revenue will fall and they would end up closing up. When SFGAm add's nothing attendance stays steady between 2.5-2.9 Million people.
So there, even people with one single functioning brain cell can work out that math on why SFGAm gets so much less than SFMM.
and Before SFGAdv is brought up, that 500 mile circle would generate a list of parks about 2 pages long.
Favorite Wood Coasters: The Voyage, Ravine Flyer II, Thunderhead, Balder Favorite Steel: Voltron Nevera, Steel Vengeance, Expedition GeForce, Olympia Looping Parks visited: 232, Coasters Ridden: Steel: 894, Wood: 179, Total: 1073
First of all, The complaint about teens is true whether or not you like it its the truth, no one said the truth didnt hurt. The fact is MANY teens treat the parks like day-care centers, are punks, etc etc. Maybe if the teens that went to the parks acted less like children and more like young adults, then there wouldnt be problems but i digress.
Galvan, you are right on target with that statement. Notice how he said MANY, not ALL of teens act like a monkey a** in the park. I have witnessed several teens behave in a way that is just downright embarrasing. Screaming at the top of their lungs to their friends to come up, and cut through the line to join them. Bouncing basketballs down the midway like its an NBA court, not paying attention as to where they are going. On the other hand, I have seen some behave in such a way it would be hard to tell that they were a teen.
I can't say anything about Terminator, but GCI's are great wooden coasters. The only one that i've ridden has been Evel Knievel at SFStL, but they are very fast paced with lots of curves and great pops of airtime throughout the ride. Eagle and Viper are fun, but in my opinion Evel Knievel is better.
I love Viper, but I agree with you, Evel Knievel beats it hands down. The speed, the pace, the layout is just wonderful.
If it walks like socialist, quacks like socialist, smells like a socialist, .... it's a socialist. Hope, and change we can believe in.
FParker185 wrote:IB, WI Dells, MiAdv, Grizzly Jacks and whatever else you come up with don't count as competition for a major regional themer such as SFGAm.
Almost every time I go to Mt. Olympus I hear people talking about Great America. It gets really annoying hearing about my home park when I'm trying to enjoy a different one.
yes, in the shape CF is in, they are idiots to spend 50 million on 2 rides for parks which do not lack thrills. And this comes off the year they built the pricey Diamondback...Six Flags deja vu u r right. Did not catch that before.
Well Diamondback was a great investment for PKI, it wasn't a want but a complete need at KI for a high capacity thrilling coaster. For the past 15 or so years KI has gotten low capacity prototype coasters and other rides (like Drop Zone) that were hit and miss. KI has always been a far to highly attended park with far to low a total capacity .
It just made sense even though a Morgan Hyper would have filled the need.
Intimidator at Carowinds is another example of that. Intimidator 305 at KD though is a little shady though. A regular hyper-coaster would have been plenty there, and plenty cheaper.
Favorite Wood Coasters: The Voyage, Ravine Flyer II, Thunderhead, Balder Favorite Steel: Voltron Nevera, Steel Vengeance, Expedition GeForce, Olympia Looping Parks visited: 232, Coasters Ridden: Steel: 894, Wood: 179, Total: 1073
The intimdator plan just seems stupid to me. Why would you give Carowinds a 200 ft. Hyper, and then give Kings Dominion a 300 foot giga, and give them the same names? And wheres the 'everyone gets fair share besides CP' attitude CF has had?
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Top 5: 1) El Toro. 2) Maverick. 3) Millenium Force. 4) Diamondback. 5) X2. Coaster Count: 167 (41 Wood, 125 Steel) @Coaster_Cole on Twitter
^Agreed with that. The naming them the same is just odd. I get Dale Sr. is a huge draw in that area, but it just confuses the people in the middle of both parks.
david wrote:Why is it that so many people here, let me add, so many adults (30+) complain that Teens are:
- No-goods that get all their money from parents. - No-goods that go to the park as a day-care center. - No-goods that are either emo, or punks.
When, so many complaining about us are upwards of 35. Within 20+ years, times have changed. Yes my parents pay for my season pass. Although I pay for each visit, by either using Public Transit, or by getting rides, and pay for food at the park. I visit the park once or twice a week, and I don't see how people use it as a day care.
Early in June, I go daily since school(aka work for me) is over and crowds are still not heavy. Daily, I see the same 12-14 year olds there. Parents get that they can spend $65 plus tax and send their kid there every day for only the cost of food and transportation. The $10-$15 a day that cost is much cheaper and easier then having someone watch their kid.
Also, times have not really changed in the last 20 years. Kids want to think they are smarter and older than they really are. They also want to be rebellious and act like a "badass" so they do stupid stuff. It was that way in 1200, 1900 and today.
If any one on here took a minute to get to know people, they would know their personality and such. But rather, ya'll automatically assume that teens are stupid, punks, who hate the world.
I don't need to know someone that is starting a mosh pit in the Viper station to know they suck at life. Same goes for cutting lines, screaming for no reason in a station or trying to start teen "drama" in the park.
Sure Six FLags is all about money I get it, but why on earth do they give Magic Mountain a new thrill addition yearly, but can't give us one in ** years.
Study why SFMM gets thrill rides, them come back and talk.
Ya'll are bringing up some good points here. When it comes to teens at the park I'll agree that they are mostly obnoxious and I generally want to throw heavy objects at them to shut them up, but they are also teenagers, and hopefully 80% of them will grow up and some point. Not much we can do about that one.
When it comes to Chang, I think both extremes of this argument are just stupid. From what I gather if you don't want Chang you aren't a true coaster enthusiast, and if you get upset about not getting Chang you are also not a true coaster enthusiast. Those digs are hilarious to me. I wanna come back by saying "YOU'RE MOMS NOT A COASTER ENTHUSIAST!"
I agree with tp on this one, a GCI Woodie would be a much greater addition to our park. We have a ton of steel coasters, and GCI Woodies are quite a bit different than the two wooden coasters we have now.
I will NOT go as far to say that Shapiro is a God, because while I understand what he does from a business perspective, I do NOT like many of the things he does to the park. Parks need to be unique from one another, and believing that you can slap in commercialized family areas is using the same logic that you can just slap in crappy themed roller coasters. If you take a little more time and money to customize each attraction to the park's themed areas, you get a much cleaner park, and if you don't believe me, go ask Disney.
Oh, and if you don't buy a season pass because we didn't get a big coaster this year, enjoy having a boring summer I guess.
Top 5 wood-5-Goliath 4-Ravine Flyer II 3-Phoenix 2-Voyage 1-El Toro Top 5 Steel- 5-Velocicoaster 4- Maverick 3- Fury 325 2-Steel Vengeance 1-X2 Coaster Count: 444
^That's what I was trying to get at with my post. Everyone is saying "the park doesn't need a 30billion dollar coaster every two years". But that isn't happening and it hasn't been like that for 7-8 years. So I don't know why people keep bringing that up. A GCI would be cheaper then TDK, attract families a lot more then the other additions the park has added in the past few years, would keep thrill seekers satisfied, keep enthusiasts satisfied, and over all be very beneficial to the park.
Honestly, adding Chang wouldn't really do much for the park. Knowing Six Flags it would be just parking lot coaster like Scream. And after a few years it would loose all it's hype. It should go to a park that needs it and has room for it...like SFStl.
^ There you go again with outrageous statements that have really nothing behind them except hearsay. Find something else to talk about because unless you have a magical crystal ball, you dont know how any new coaster Chang, GCI or whatever will do at Great America.
I'm not saying any of this will happen or anything. But you tell me then, what coaster do you think would have a better impact on the park? You keep saying the park needs to attract families. Well all Chang will do is attract teens over 54". A GCI will attract families at least 48".
I am not trying to prove anything really. It's just an opinion based off of what others have said.
^ Although I don't agree with your overall ideas about Chang, I do have to agree that a new woodie could help the park very much. Especially if it were to take the spot of Iron Wolf, although i love that coaster, it IS pretty bad. So!
^Please, like that's going to happen. Ee all know that the world is going to end in 2012 anyways
Whether we like it or not, Six Flags will do what they think will benefit the park. Until that time, however, no one else really knows what is going on with Chang and what would happen IF it went to SFGAm. If it comes here great, but I think there are other parks in the chain that need it more.
13 - GateKeeper 14 - Millennium Force 15 - Enchanted Tales with Belle
Dear those who think adding family attractions is dumb, Family attractions = more kids = parents spending more money in the park.
Dear those who think adding big roller coasters cannot make parks money. Roller coasters = attendance. Big crowds spend money on things like soda and sunscreen. Good roller coasters, like BTR for example, opened almost two decades ago yet still brings paying customers to the park...people that spend money on soda and sunscreen.
So everyone on either side of this argument should shut the f*ck up and deal with whatever old kiddie wooden coaster or used B&M standup you get
