Happy Festivus!

[FParker185]

Yeah, what the topic said. All can save all non secular greetings for a separate thread.

So to all atheists, humanists, agnostics, freethinkers and other nontheistic's , enjoy some paid days off, and get ready to shell out some dough for a new calendar

[Ilovthevu']

To all the people that don't believe in a God, all I can say please explain how there were the first chicken on earth, the first human, the first camel, the first planets, the sky, the clouds, the sun, and so on? These are things that man couldn't have made.

And for the thing well things just come in motion philosophy. Well, don't things come in motion through a force? I roll a ball to get it moving, or I change the ground level so it starts rolling. A ball won't just roll by itself. Wind could make it move though, but that's a force on the ball. Did the planets, people, and so on just come out of nowhere?

I wonder if people that don't believe in God believe in the wind. You can't see wind. How do you know it's really there? Through feel might mean nothing because it could be your brain just playing tricks with you and you think you are feeling something when you aren't. I was watching a movie, and they said do you believe in a million dollars? Well, the guy says sure I do. Well, the point was that just because you never had a million dollars in your hand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

God, he made procreation feel so good in order for people to make more babies. Think about it. If it didn't feel so good, we all would probably die off by now because no one would want to procreate. God is the person that made us if you get a cut on your hand, you put a bandaid on, and your skin heals over a period of time. That's amazing to me. He set our weather in motion in order for the crops to grow through rain, or have a nice and sunny day in the summer. in my opinion, the reason for really bad weather is because of what we did throughout the years, and still continue to do - POLLUTE - the earth. Pollution is in cars, factories, houses, and so on, and the more we pollute the worse the weather is going to get. An perfect example of what pollution has done is to look at insects from back than. (the cascadas might be from back than and the dragonflies) They were huge. Now, they are smaller. Why? It's because the oxygen has gotten worse, and they are shrinking! Tearing down forests for new buildings is us again, and not God.

When Abbey gets lung cancer, do I blame God for that? No, I blame the smoking companies for making something that kills people. I also can blame Abbey for doing it to herself. When Todd gets in a car accident, and sadly loses a leg, do I blame God for that? No, I either blame Todd for his bad driving, the weather (Even little rain can do it.), the vechicle and tires in which man or women has made - could be flawed easily, or the other driver. Why in the world do we blame everything on God? We have freewill to drive down the street talk on our phones while driving, not pay attention, and than crash into another person. Of course, it's not on purpose. How is that God's fault at all?

[FParker185]

decided on a more detailed answer below...

[FParker185]

To all the people that don't believe in a God, all I can say please explain how there were the first chicken on earth, the first human, the first camel, the first planets, the sky, the clouds, the sun, and so on? These are things that man couldn't have made.

Billions of years ago groups of amino acids joined together to create the first protiens, not long after that evolved into Bacteria and other simple single cell organisms, from there evolution contined the chain and accounts for the first chicken, camel and humans. Planets were made from leftover junk circling around newly formed stars. Sky is an illusion, and doesnt actually exist, the color blue reflects off the oceans and makes the sky appear blue. Clouds is water vapor which is a combination of Hydrogen and Oxygen, both of which are prevalent thoughout the solar system and presumably the galaxy.

And for the thing well things just come in motion philosophy. Well, don't things come in motion through a force? I roll a ball to get it moving, or I change the ground level so it starts rolling. A ball won't just roll by itself. Wind could make it move though, but that's a force on the ball. Did the planets, people, and so on just come out of nowhere?

I cant explain it and neither can you. I don't accept that an invisible man who lives up in the sky and gets pissed off often created everything we see today. In time science will provide an explanation.

I wonder if people that don't believe in God believe in the wind. You can't see wind. How do you know it's really there? Through feel might mean nothing because it could be your brain just playing tricks with you and you think you are feeling something when you aren't. I was watching a movie, and they said do you believe in a million dollars? Well, the guy says sure I do. Well, the point was that just because you never had a million dollars in your hand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Science explains the wind. I suggest you look it up. Simple common sense explains the million dollars thing. Just the fact that that was brought up as an example to the existence of a higher power, I'm pretty sure just lowered my IQ by several points, just by me reading it.

God, he made procreation feel so good in order for people to make more babies. Think about it. If it didn't feel so good, we all would probably die off by now because no one would want to procreate. God is the person that made us if you get a cut on your hand, you put a bandaid on, and your skin heals over a period of time. That's amazing to me. He set our weather in motion in order for the crops to grow through rain, or have a nice and sunny day in the summer. in my opinion, the reason for really bad weather is because of what we did throughout the years, and still continue to do - POLLUTE - the earth. Pollution is in cars, factories, houses, and so on, and the more we pollute the worse the weather is going to get. An perfect example of what pollution has done is to look at insects from back than. (the cascadas might be from back than and the dragonflies) They were huge. Now, they are smaller. Why? It's because the oxygen has gotten worse, and they are shrinking! Tearing down forests for new buildings is us again, and not God.

Well, as for procreation, people want to put some special or mystical meaning behind life, but honestly, the only meaning of life is to procreate and continue the species, same as any other species of animal on earth. And we don't do it just because it's enjoyable. A male cat's penis is covered in spikes and it appears to be quite painful for the female cat, yet they still do it often and there are more than enough cats around, it's simply programmed into animals brains that procreation is a must at all costs.

Animals that don't/didn't heal are no longer around cause they are quite useless. It's survival of the fittest. Weeds out the weak and the superior beings survive. It's as simple as that.

When Abbey gets lung cancer, do I blame God for that? No, I blame the smoking companies for making something that kills people. I also can blame Abbey for doing it to herself. When Todd gets in a car accident, and sadly loses a leg, do I blame God for that? No, I either blame Todd for his bad driving, the weather (Even little rain can do it.), the vechicle and tires in which man or women has made - could be flawed easily, or the other driver. Why in the world do we blame everything on God? We have freewill to drive down the street talk on our phones while driving, not pay attention, and than crash into another person. Of course, it's not on purpose. How is that God's fault at all?

How are the tobacco companies at fault? By your very logic they are simply selling something that your god created himself. The only people to blame in this is smokers themselves, of which I am currently one. If I come down with cancer, or some other disease, I don't plan on blaming God, Tobacco companies, the government who allows tobacco companies to operate or even some old friends that got me hooked on this habbit. I choose to smoke, meaning I choose to suffer the consequences. Personal responsibility is severely lacking these days. For all the rest accidents are just accidents and nothing more. Who or whatever is at fault should be punished.

One can say that if God is so good and great, why doesn't he/she/it stop stuff stuff from happening.

All I have left to say is

1. While I am an athiest I do not judge those who choose to believe in a higher power. It just irks me when something like today happens and I can't do a damn thing cause everything is closed due to a holiday with no biblical reference. (According to the bible, what day does X-mas actually fall on? and I do need a reference). Also I don't specifically intend to offend others with my beliefs or lack there of. When it's brought up I will defend my position, and that's about it.

2. (this is a quote) There is no proof or evidence for the existence of gods. There is no need for or use for gods. Superstition and ignorance have never served mankind in a good way. Religions have shown themselves to be intolerant and bigoted. Religions have impeded scientific progress, liberty, and reformation.

Man has invented many gods over the tens of thousands of years and the majority of them have fallen by the wayside in the scrapheap of mythology. The modern man-made gods will be no different than the gods of the early Shamans or Greeks.

[rct2wizard360]

Without religion what reason would you have to live? Where do the majority of this world's morals come from? What do people have to fall back on?

Religion. Man made, to give people hope.

Or you can just man up, and run your own life.
Raised a Catholic, Catholic School for 9 years of my life. The second I left I questioned what was force fed down my throat with no room for questions at all in those 9 years.

So I just kinda chose to live my life, and be a good person.

But I'm just adding to this mess.
Merry Christmas!

[FParker185]

That's actually exactly how I feel. I don't need to fear an angry lord or eternal damnation to be able to live a good and relatively honest life, and that's really what counts. For instance if some old lady is trying to cross a busy street, I'd help out, not to score points for some afterlife, but because it's the right thing to do.

[Ilovthevu']

^^One can say that if God is so good and great, why doesn't he/she/it stop stuff stuff from happening.

I'll take this one statement, and tell you again that I personally think that in order for stuff not to happen, he would have to control everything in this world. Would anyone like to be a robot and be controlled by someone else? How can a person drown in a pool? It's because they can't swim. What is God supposed to do to not make them drown? Our bodies are not indestructable. in my opinion, we are only meant to live for sometime because this is a test. If you don't believe in a God than after a 100 or less years, you just become absolutely nothing. I rather go through this world, and think of the wonders in the next life instead of just think 100 years, and I'm non-existant forever.

What I'm curious now, is do you believe in ghosts? in my opinion, a ghost is a person's soul that's trapped on earth. They haven't found the light to the next world. They are inbetween worlds. They don't understand they are dead. That's why in my opinion, you don't hear of everyone becoming ghosts.

Why do you believe there are ghosts if you even believe in ghosts? I'm just curious because I think that as I said soul leaves the body just like if people go to heaven. If the body is dead, according to science why would someone be alive as a ghost?

[Coaster Justin]

OK, Mike; try this

Say there is a God and on 2012 or whenever, Everything just explodes and Is Destroyed. You are killed and sent to Heaven and God knows if you're a Believer or Not. If you are, you are protected and safe and Happy forever. If you don't believe you go to Devil's Ville and are forced to do the Devil's Handywork for all Eternity.
Oh Well.

ALSO ATHIESTS SHUT UP about your Non Believing. If you don't want to believe fine, But be quiet about it and don't ruin it for everybody; But then you don't get To go to Stores and Get Christmas Shopping Deals, You should have to pay 2x the Amount to show how much you don't believe and how little you want to take part.

[FParker185]

This is America. We are free to believe what we want. Maybe you should also be quiet and not force your beliefs on others. Also, I don't see how consumerism connects in any way shape or form to organized religion. If someone's non belief viewpoint is ruining X-mas for you, I'd say you have some deep seeded insecurity about your own beliefs

And no I don't believe in ghosts. And I prefer to think that when I die I will be non existent forever. You know how boring it would be in the afterlife for all eternity. I'm bored now currently in life and going by the averages I'm only about 1/3 of the way done with life, I don't need or want a continuation after that.

And as for 2010, that is the absolute last thing on my mind. The gods that that calendar was based upon were kicked to the wayside a long long time ago. Plus it's nothing a few good human sacrifices cant fix, Mayans sure loved their human sacrifice

Plus if Hitler repented on his death bed he would be guaranteed access to heaven, and he was in fact Catholic, so that was likely the case. If Hitler can enter heaven, then I'm sure I'll have no problem if that ends up being the case

[rct2wizard360]

From the movie Zeitgeist...

"If they all believe so heavily in faith, then why is the pope-mobile surrounded in 3-4inch thick bulletproof glass?"

I find it funny how hard Coaster Justin and Ilovethevu are trying to shove this down our throats with things like "SHUT UP" and all these really random arguments that don't connect, while me and FParker are sitting here calmly responding to everything you guys are throwing at us. Yes, throwing.

Just a small observation

[w00dland]

ALSO ATHIESTS SHUT UP about your Non Believing. If you don't want to believe fine, But be quiet about it and don't ruin it for everybody; But then you don't get To go to Stores and Get Christmas Shopping Deals, You should have to pay 2x the Amount to show how much you don't believe and how little you want to take part.

Ok whoa whoa whoa settle down Justin. I made a big post about this kind of thing but somehow it never made it on the topic. Look, religion is a very touchy subject for both sides involved, so first things first - respect each other's opinion. If we are ever going to achieve a decent discourse about the topic the least you can do is not insult one another.

Next, Christmas has become more and more socially constructed since its beginning. Athiests have to pay double because they don't believe in God? Do you know how ludicrous that sounds even within your own religion. First of all, if you were to celebrate christmas from a traditional christian point of view, there wouldn't be massive shopping days each and every year, that's a western constructed phenomenon. And quite honestly I'd argue that the majority of christians are more interested in spending time with family, opening some gifts and eating turkey than celebrating Christ's birth. Tell me how athiests shouldn't be allowed the same thing?

Another reason why "athiests" shouldn't have to pay double the price: Jesus himself spent the majority of his teachings telling us to GIVE UP all of our possessions and live the life of a poor man. Technically speaking, the athiests should be buying all the presents anyways, and the Christians shouldn't be getting anything for Christmas. Now obviously that is NOT how things work today and that is absolutely fine. I know that the Catholic church expects the tree with the gifts for everyone but I want you to realize that part of the celebration has been socially constructed since day one. A stocking turned into a present under a tree which turned into many more presents than Jesus would EVER have wanted.

Our media and corporations have made Christmas what it is today, and by saying ludicrous statements like nonbelievers shouldn't be allowed to celebrate christmas (that is more a western holiday than a religious one in the first place) is just pointless and stupid.

And so you know where I am coming from. Raised catholic, and went to church this morning.

[BP317]

This is America. We are free to believe what we want. Maybe you should also be quiet and not force your beliefs on others.

[monsterfan99]

Nice to see this was a topic about a joke holiday from a bad TV show turned in people complaining about religion.

If you any religion or not, I DO NOT CARE. Odds are, no one else gives a damn what your religious(or non-religious) beliefs are. This should not have turned into a religious "debate" what so ever.

[FParker185]

Next year will just have to use something stronger than "All can save all non secular greetings for a separate thread."

However for religious discussion, this has all been pretty civil for the most part., at least I think.

[Galvan]

People take religion and politics very seriously. Its a very thorny issue for a lot of believers and non believers alike. However, I will say this. Believe what you want in what you want. But DO NOT force your ideas and beliefs on anyone.

Justin, you should know that especially considering how devote you seem.

The bible teaches us to "Love thy neighbor" that means just that. Regardless of whatever they believe.

[vprlvr456]

^ Exactly, if you were a good christan, wouldn't you respect all life?

[FParker185]

Don't be to hard on him. If you believe in something strongly, you should speak your mind. Especially in religion there is no right or wrong. As long as it's not extremely mean spirited, all's fair.