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Postby CoasterRiderSC on September 21st, 2018, 10:04 am
^ Not to stir up Sven18 some more, but SFMM having more revenue and attendance doesn't necessarily mean it has higher EBITDA than SFGAm. You have to take into account COGS, payroll expenses, etc.

It is possible for SFMM to have much higher operating costs for example due to higher wages. Even though the passes cost more, the higher labor costs (and higher utility costs?) COULD cause its EBITDA to be lower.
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Postby JackGlass on September 21st, 2018, 10:19 am
CoasterRiderSC wrote:^ Not to stir up Sven18 some more, but SFMM having more revenue and attendance doesn't necessarily mean it has higher EBITDA than SFGAm. You have to take into account COGS, payroll expenses, etc.

It is possible for SFMM to have much higher operating costs for example due to higher wages. Even though the passes cost more, the higher labor costs (and higher utility costs?) COULD cause its EBITDA to be lower.



Sadly Six Flags doesn't release this info in their anual reports, but you're 100% right! Look at Great Adventure. Their season passes are nearly the same price as ours, but they have a huge animal exhibit and need to pay for all those trainers, vets, special food, etc. Where as Six Flags Great America doesn't!

Last time I heard about the most profitable park in the chain was from that old interview with Mark Shapiro, and stated that it was Six Flags Great America. I don't know if it's still like that, but so far under Andersons leadership Great America has been treated the best, so it strongly indicates that we are either number one or very close to it.

As far as the destination park goes. Warner Brothers had every intention of turning Great America into a destination park. The Entertainment Village would have been much greater than Cedar Points resorts and would have included an arena, corporate headquarters, hotels a shopping complex, Water Park, etc. Sadly Premier screwed that deal up. But the idea that Great America isn't situated to be a destination park is ludacris. Especially when staycations are more popular than ever today.

As far as building better rides than Cedar Point. We did it with Magnum XL 200. Raging Bull is a far superior hyper coaster than Magnum. There's nothing stopping Six Flags from RMCing Eagle ($40 Million) or building a B&M Giga ($30 Million) Except for this every park gets something new every year strategy, which greatly limits the amount of money they can spend. Their new ride budget in 2017 was $97 Million, plenty of cash to make major investments, it's just some parks would have to go a year without getting something.
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Postby JT2002 on September 21st, 2018, 10:40 am
JackGlass wrote: When I was at the park last weekend, there were a few chain link fences up around Buccaneer Battle! Are they finally getting ready to demolish that thing?

They might just be FF decorations, or they're there to keep people out of the ride because it's closed. Do you have pictures?
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Postby JackGlass on September 21st, 2018, 10:43 am
JT2002 wrote:
JackGlass wrote: When I was at the park last weekend, there were a few chain link fences up around Buccaneer Battle! Are they finally getting ready to demolish that thing?

They might just be FF decorations, or they're there to keep people out of the ride because it's closed. Do you have pictures?


No sadly I don't! Because the fences weren't completely surrounding the ride, just in certain sections which seemed really odd! If anyone's there this weekend check it out!
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Postby staticshadows on September 21st, 2018, 11:53 am
JackGlass wrote:
JT2002 wrote:
JackGlass wrote: When I was at the park last weekend, there were a few chain link fences up around Buccaneer Battle! Are they finally getting ready to demolish that thing?

They might just be FF decorations, or they're there to keep people out of the ride because it's closed. Do you have pictures?


No sadly I don't! Because the fences weren't completely surrounding the ride, just in certain sections which seemed really odd! If anyone's there this weekend check it out!

Hopefully it’s being removed. I would like to see a Zamperla Giga Discovery in that location for 2020.
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Postby JackGlass on September 21st, 2018, 12:51 pm
That would be an amazing addition for 2020! Buccaneer Battle is probably the next ride on the chopping block! They wouldn't even have to give it a send off announcement because no one rides the damn thing, lol
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Postby MrsTaxi on September 21st, 2018, 2:40 pm
JackGlass wrote:That would be an amazing addition for 2020! Buccaneer Battle is probably the next ride on the chopping block! They wouldn't even have to give it a send off announcement because no one rides the damn thing, lol


The fence is there for the halloween candy trail....nothing more.
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Postby JackGlass on September 21st, 2018, 2:53 pm
MrsTaxi wrote:
JackGlass wrote:That would be an amazing addition for 2020! Buccaneer Battle is probably the next ride on the chopping block! They wouldn't even have to give it a send off announcement because no one rides the damn thing, lol


The fence is there for the halloween candy trail....nothing more.


damn it, lol
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Postby Sven18 on September 21st, 2018, 4:24 pm
JackGlass wrote:
But the idea that Great America isn't situated to be a destination park is ludacris. Especially when staycations are more popular than ever today.


Yes, it is ludacris. Staycation is not by definiton not a destination park. Do you know what staycation means? The level of fantasy and self importance of GAm is delusional talk.

JackGlass wrote:. There's nothing stopping Six Flags from RMCing Eagle ($40 Million) or building a B&M Giga ($30 Million) Except for this every park gets something new every year strategy, which greatly limits the amount of money they can spend. Their new ride budget in 2017 was $97 Million, plenty of cash to make major investments, it's just some parks would have to go a year without getting something.


SF Capex formula prevents 30M or 40M coasters. The fact you keep spouting this is astonishing nonsense. No the 2017 ride budget was not 97M, The Total Capex listed in SF annual reports is split 60%rides, 25% asset management, 15% non rides. If you made up number of 97M ride budget was true, the Capex overall would have to be 162M, it wasn't.
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Postby JackGlass on September 21st, 2018, 5:11 pm
Sven18 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:
But the idea that Great America isn't situated to be a destination park is ludacris. Especially when staycations are more popular than ever today.


Yes, it is ludacris. Staycation is not by definiton not a destination park. Do you know what staycation means? The level of fantasy and self importance of GAm is delusional talk.

JackGlass wrote:. There's nothing stopping Six Flags from RMCing Eagle ($40 Million) or building a B&M Giga ($30 Million) Except for this every park gets something new every year strategy, which greatly limits the amount of money they can spend. Their new ride budget in 2017 was $97 Million, plenty of cash to make major investments, it's just some parks would have to go a year without getting something.


SF Capex formula prevents 30M or 40M coasters. The fact you keep spouting this is astonishing nonsense. No the 2017 ride budget was not 97M, The Total Capex listed in SF annual reports is split 60%rides, 25% asset management, 15% non rides. If you made up number of 97M ride budget was true, the Capex overall would have to be 162M, it wasn't.


"In the first half of 2017, the company invested $97 million in NEW capital projects, paid $113 million in dividends, or $0.64 per common share per quarter, and repurchased $379 million of its common stock"

https://www.advfn.com/news_Record-Reven ... 10922.html

Total Capex for 2017 was $135 Million That 60% figure you mentioned can be adjusted from year to year.

Yes I'm very well aware what a staycation is, hence the reason an on site hotel makes perfect sense. Time Warner thought it was a good idea too, so I don't know what to tell you Sven18.
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Postby Sven18 on September 21st, 2018, 5:36 pm
JackGlass wrote:
"In the first half of 2017, the company invested $97 million in NEW capital projects, paid $113 million in dividends, or $0.64 per common share per quarter, and repurchased $379 million of its common stock"

https://www.advfn.com/news_Record-Reven ... 10922.html

Total Capex for 2017 was $135 Million That 60% figure you mentioned can be adjusted from year to year.

Yes I'm very well aware what a staycation is, hence the reason an on site hotel makes perfect sense. Time Warner thought it was a good idea too, so I don't know what to tell you Sven18.



$97M in new capital projects is not rides,lol. That's the entire Capex in the period not just rides and the total CApex is still the same 9% of north american revenue. The majority of Capex occurs in the first half b/c rides for the new season are actually constructed. maintenance occurs, restaurants and other things get renovated or built. Can you do math of what 60% of the total Capex was in 2017. It's not 97M.

FYI, the higher Capex in 2020 is based on higher revenue projected by 2020, but the same 9% max(actually less). Do the math, they are projecting 200M more in adjusted EBIDTA. That means revenue is projected to raise minimum 200M(actually more b/c it's rarely 1:1 revenue growth to EBIDTA). But lets be generous and say it's 1 to 1, 9% of 200M is 18M. They are projecting to spend even less than 9% of the minimum 200M more revenue. If they spent the full 9% of the new minimum 200M that would18M more or153M based on the 135M. Reducing the % below 9% is something they have hinted at in conf calls and their own projection show that's exactly what they are projecting in their own numbers.

GAm is not building a hotel. You're ludicrous fantasies are hilarious on 30 or 40M coasters and a hotel. SF Corporate has no interest in hotels. Warner Bros was a failure as a large scale park operator b/c of ideas like this.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on September 21st, 2018, 8:45 pm
^ The amount of money for rides is 81 million so that does make sense the maximum amount of money they can spend on one ride has to be under 20 million otherwise you are probably going to over spend on the 60% ride money. There is no way to spend over 20 million on something or else you are over spending and ruining the capex. Do this for continuing years and you go bankrupt again. Ok now I get it. See Sven if you told us the capex and the percentage of it the is spent on rides then I wouldn't have argued with you.
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Postby Sven18 on September 21st, 2018, 10:04 pm
JackGlass wrote:"In the first half of 2017, the company invested $97 million in NEW capital projects, paid $113 million in dividends, or $0.64 per common share per quarter, and repurchased $379 million of its common stock"

https://www.advfn.com/news_Record-Reven ... 10922.html

Total Capex for 2017 was $135 Million That 60% figure you mentioned can be adjusted from year to year.

Yes I'm very well aware what a staycation is, hence the reason an on site hotel makes perfect sense. Time Warner thought it was a good idea too, so I don't know what to tell you Sven18.


Also, if you actually go thru the entire investor presentation you would notice in 2018 SF actually projected to lower CAPEX to 128M, which takes it back 1M below 2016 FY levels of 129M.
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Postby ChicagoCoasters on October 4th, 2018, 11:56 pm
Last Call Fall Festival food offerings are up.
https://www.sixflags.com/greatamerica/s ... l-festival
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Ragin Cajun and Iron Wolf went from Six Flags Great America to Six Flags America. I guess they weren't GREAT anymore.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on October 5th, 2018, 11:09 am
It's cool that they are doing it again. I probably might go but it depends if the rides are running.
How come Lightning Rod is never open when I go.

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Postby anewman35 on October 5th, 2018, 8:29 pm
The other day, I saw a sign in Hometown Park (not sure if it was new, but I hadn't seen it before) that said you could use your Season Dining Pass for Games, Dare Devil Dive, or the Go Karts. It said to check with those attractions for more info (and I didn't). Anybody know about his this works?
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Postby Sven18 on October 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm
http://investors.sixflags.com/news-and- ... -235058511

The Rockford Park District Board of Commissioners has approved a lease agreement that allows Six Flags Entertainment Corporation (NYSE:SIX) to operate Magic Waters Waterpark starting in the spring of 2019.

https://www.magicwaterswaterpark.com/
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Postby SFGAmFan12 on October 9th, 2018, 8:04 pm
Sven18 wrote:http://investors.sixflags.com/news-and-events/press-releases/2018/10-09-2018-235058511

The Rockford Park District Board of Commissioners has approved a lease agreement that allows Six Flags Entertainment Corporation (NYSE:SIX) to operate Magic Waters Waterpark starting in the spring of 2019.

https://www.magicwaterswaterpark.com/



This is great news. Being from Rockford this will massively increase visibility of the park and hopefully increase additions, even if small. Magic Waters has been really under utilized and promoted in the last 10 years. Being a season pass holder and being able to use it at another park is another huge bonus, and will drive pass sales even more for Great America if there are other parks nearby to utilize.

Also found it interesting that Hank was the one commenting—not corporate. Seems as though the park will be directly managed by Great America folks.
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Postby Ilovthevu' on October 9th, 2018, 8:19 pm
In my OPINION, this is HORRIBLE news for the people of Rockford. No more free parking. No more $10 / $12 tickets, etc. Probably a higher price to get in with little to no discounts. No more groupons. That locker fee of, I think $9 (with $2 back at the end of the day) GOODBYE / GOOD RIDDENS. It will probably be $15 or $20.

These Rockford people were always complaining about bringing in no more coolers. That is the least problem for these people NOW! They are going to be so mad, it's absurd, how mad they will be, and not go to this park.

If those Rockford people were season pass holders, than it's not as bad, but for regular day Rockford area guests, they will be furious.

There are only (in my OPINION) 2 GOOD sides to this.

If you have a season gold pass or membership to Six Flags Great America, now you get in the free (at least for the first year / who knows later years) to this park. Secondly, they MIGHT add a new thing once and awhile to this park. It's not like they didn't add anything in the past so many years, but they took out the best slide in the Illinois in my opinion, and that was the Splash Blaster (because they got sued). They added a body slide, and a smaller Tornado type of slide.

More anger from Rockford people is going to be the tube situation at this park. The tubes are as simple as can be with this park. You pick up a tube for the relaxing river, and you are in the river within 5 minutes. For Six Flags waterpark, they purposely do NOT have enough tubes because they want you to buy a tube. It might take 20 minutes! The slides are also this way at this park. You get your tube usually right away, and you go in line like you think you would. Six Flags motto is to never have enough tubes for anybody! The GOAL is for every person to buy a tube because they never have enough (on PURPOSE).

In my OPINION, these Rockford people are going to be so FURIOUS with Six Flags taking over that they probably won't go.

The Rockford people don't realize HOW GOOD they had it until Six Flags takes over, and ruins it.
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Postby anewman35 on October 9th, 2018, 10:35 pm
I haven't been to Magic Waters since I was a kid, maybe 25 years ago, so I can't speak to what it's been like. What I can say, from reading the news articles about this, is that attendence has been way down recently, and since it's run by the Park District it's actually been losing money (and that means the tax dollars of the people of Rockford). So while people may or may not end up happy with whatever happens to the park, the city itself is probably better off not running the park directly...
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Postby SFGAmFan12 on October 10th, 2018, 12:13 am
Ilovthevu' wrote:In my OPINION, this is HORRIBLE news for the people of Rockford. No more free parking. No more $10 / $12 tickets, etc. Probably a higher price to get in with little to no discounts. No more groupons. That locker fee of, I think $9 (with $2 back at the end of the day) GOODBYE / GOOD RIDDENS. It will probably be $15 or $20.

These Rockford people were always complaining about bringing in no more coolers. That is the least problem for these people NOW! They are going to be so mad, it's absurd, how mad they will be, and not go to this park.

If those Rockford people were season pass holders, than it's not as bad, but for regular day Rockford area guests, they will be furious.

There are only (in my OPINION) 2 GOOD sides to this.

If you have a season gold pass or membership to Six Flags Great America, now you get in the free (at least for the first year / who knows later years) to this park. Secondly, they MIGHT add a new thing once and awhile to this park. It's not like they didn't add anything in the past so many years, but they took out the best slide in the Illinois in my opinion, and that was the Splash Blaster (because they got sued). They added a body slide, and a smaller Tornado type of slide.

More anger from Rockford people is going to be the tube situation at this park. The tubes are as simple as can be with this park. You pick up a tube for the relaxing river, and you are in the river within 5 minutes. For Six Flags waterpark, they purposely do NOT have enough tubes because they want you to buy a tube. It might take 20 minutes! The slides are also this way at this park. You get your tube usually right away, and you go in line like you think you would. Six Flags motto is to never have enough tubes for anybody! The GOAL is for every person to buy a tube because they never have enough (on PURPOSE).

In my OPINION, these Rockford people are going to be so FURIOUS with Six Flags taking over that they probably won't go.

The Rockford people don't realize HOW GOOD they had it until Six Flags takes over, and ruins it.


This is pretty dramatic. Again, being from Rockford all of my life and living within minutes to Magic Waters now, Six Flags can do wonders for the park. Will pricing be the same? No, and that’s expected. However, the season passes are now a far better value, and if the other smaller parks Six Flags is bringing in under their umbrella we can see this park will be included on passes for years to come. Also, if Six Flags can help actually advertise this park and get people in the gate it will be great. The park district is so cheap they don’t even maintain a sign on the interstate promoting the park, they waited too long to maintain slides before they literally broke people’s backs, and the park is closed several times a year due to maintenance or cleanliness issues. It’s gotten to the point where the place is a joke many people I know don’t want to be seen. The low entry fee is just to make attendance numbers look better at the end of the year and it does nothing to really improve the finances of the park in a meaningful way.

Also, when Splashblaster was removed after the multiple lawsuits of breaking backs, it was replaced by the aqua loop and expanded kids area. The mini tornado dates from 2009 and this year was supposed to be a new boomerang water slide to go next to the aqua loop but the park district scrapped those plans.

Attendance goes up and down yearly depending on the weather for the most part but I don’t think the park witnessed any drop over banning coolers inside the park. 2015/2016 was about 186,000 visitors, 2017 was wet and down 20%, and 2018 isn’t out yet. Busy days are between 2500 and 3500 guests/day.
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Postby AirTimeDaz on October 10th, 2018, 10:51 am
I am also in Rockford. I've been here approx 20 years but I and many people I know have never been to MW. I was tempted when they had the water coaster but that didn't last long. This news though excites me! Especially if they intend on adding new attractions occasionally. If it goes well, they may explore the option of plopping a coaster or two nearby eventually? There's ample space do so it! Not holding my breath but it at least opens the door for more possibilities!

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Postby staticshadows on October 10th, 2018, 1:03 pm
This article has more details on the lease agreement and gives some insight into what Six Flags is thinking.
http://www.rrstar.com/news/20181009/rockford-park-district-to-lease-magic-waters-to-six-flags
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Postby Sven18 on October 10th, 2018, 2:12 pm
This deal was a no brainer for The Rockford Parks District. They EBD(earnings before debt) last 3 years was 487K, 465K and 7K, with debt payments they were losing between 135 and 591K. The deal guaranteed them 425K/yr with no work. They are still going to be losing overall with the almost 600k debt payments, but less most likely and they don't have to worry about a bad year like 2017 and the downward trend at the park. Didn't
see anywhere how much debt is on the water park?
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Postby JackGlass on October 10th, 2018, 2:57 pm
wow! Hopefully the local Governments give the ok to continue the property tax free operations! I wish they were doing this 10 years ago when Ozzi Waterpark closed on Rand road. It was a smaller water park with Go Karts and an arcade, but there was some good land surrounding it. I think Six Flags could have made it profitable and really turned it around. Six Flags Magic Waters has a good ring to it.
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