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2019 rumors, thoughts, speculation

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby JackGlass on August 7th, 2018, 1:58 am
gottastrata33 wrote:That’s too late!! [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] when it ends up bein water park related, I’m already ready to read the 22 pages of s*** talk.


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Worlds first launched Giga water coaster! :lol:


Joking aside, I was just reading the 2016 Financial report on Six Flags website and it states that Great America has approximately 30 acres of potentially developable land.... That's ALOT of room, larger than Hurricane Harbor. What land are they referring too? The Parking lot? The woods behind the employee parking lot? Because that's a huge chunk of land.
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Postby jmanporty7 on August 7th, 2018, 8:48 am
I am pretty sure the current construction area is included in the 30 acres, I just can't how we would have 30 acres of land otherwise. Also Great Adventure tho my goodness :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby JackGlass on August 7th, 2018, 8:56 am
Great Adventure is massive! So they've got a lot of room left to work with! These numbers are from the official Six Flags 2016 annual repot, so they definitely see 30 acres of potential land at Great America!
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Postby RandomDoof on August 7th, 2018, 9:35 am
For the developable land, I asked this question a while ago and Guy_With_A_Stick made this,
Oh boy here we go

Ok, so I think the most feasible way we can 'expand' our park is actually through Picnic Grove. In the past few years, I've seldom seen anyone use Picnic Grove for anything. Maybe two events a month. Seeing how the pathways are already(for the most part) in place, why not just open them up to the park? If all the picnic pavilion infrastructure is removed, I'm almost certain there's space for rides, shops, games, etc. It can run from Joker all the way through Wilderness Theater, and hook back up at Camp Cartoon/Logger's Run.

Image

As you can see, the paths are comparable to Yankee Harbor and Yukon Territory combined. And while I don't expect them to leave any time soon, the Flumes take up enough space for a very sizable coaster or two. But even if that still isn't enough room, there's always room in the Employee lot area:

Image

The red is the current Boneyard. The blue is the current Employee Parking Lot. The green is Undeveloped land that the park owns. I can definitely see the park moving the employee lot farther back(probably to the upper green area), shifting the bone yard up, and expanding into the leftover land. The Picnic Grove area is directly underneath the boneyard(and goes to show how much room there really is!), so expansion through there can be relatively easy. I doubt we'll be seeing a lot of capital thrown into one area in one year, but if we were to expand the park, this is definitely the way I see it going.


Something else interesting is that in the 2010 report it was only 20 acres
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Postby tribar on August 7th, 2018, 12:40 pm
Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.
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Postby B&MGuy35 on August 7th, 2018, 12:56 pm
tribar wrote:Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.


That’s the thing though...
I’m never disappointed in what the park does. I’ve welcomed every addition we’ve had in the past and will continue to do so. So if it’s a water park addition then I will be happy. I waited years and years for the water park to get built since it never happened on the other side of the tollway along with the entertainment complex that was supposed to go up. So bring on whatever they’re gonna do because this is my home park and I’ve been going to it since it opened and will continue to do so no matter what they do. I love this park and the fact that we get something new each year is a blessing to me.


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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on August 7th, 2018, 1:18 pm
I have a new theory what if when they were looking at dive bomber meant that was a clue for the angle of the drop. But I still keep thinking it will be a water park addition as of proof by this photo.
20180719_182221.jpeg


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Postby Goku1910 on August 7th, 2018, 2:06 pm
B&MGuy35 wrote:
tribar wrote:Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.


That’s the thing though...
I’m never disappointed in what the park does. I’ve welcomed every addition we’ve had in the past and will continue to do so. So if it’s a water park addition then I will be happy. I waited years and years for the water park to get built since it never happened on the other side of the tollway along with the entertainment complex that was supposed to go up. So bring on whatever they’re gonna do because this is my home park and I’ve been going to it since it opened and will continue to do so no matter what they do. I love this park and the fact that we get something new each year is a blessing to me.


Even ignite? Be honest, would you rather get something every single year even if that meant the addition sucked? Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy if we got nothing for a year and just got part infrastructure improvements. Refurbished buildings, removal of blacktop, cleaned up landscaping, whatever.
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Postby Goku1910 on August 7th, 2018, 2:07 pm
_FuryBull_330_ wrote:I have a new theory what if when they were looking at dive bomber meant that was a clue for the angle of the drop. But I still keep thinking it will be a water park addition as of proof by this photo.


Where is that and why do you think that's proof?
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Postby Muck Finnesota on August 7th, 2018, 2:10 pm
tribar wrote:Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.


Most likely. I probably will be. I'd like to believe Six Flags would make exceptions to their thrift with Great America because they've added X-Flight and Goliath since 2012. I'm also optimistic because this nice chunk of land in question belong(ed) to the dry side (the Pictorium entrance remaining is also encouraging). That said- for me, at least, there hasn't been anything at all to get excited about since Goliath. On top of that, the people this park attracts have been steadily getting trashier and trashier. I've been going to this park since I was a kid (when Batman was new), and have plenty of fond memories. I'd like to keep them coming. The recent trajectory on all fronts is not encouraging.

I'll definitely be disappointed with a water park addition. Wasn't thrilled that it was built in the first place. That's just me, though. The place is packed on any given day, so obviously there are people who enjoy it.
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Postby B&MGuy35 on August 7th, 2018, 2:22 pm
Goku1910 wrote:
B&MGuy35 wrote:
tribar wrote:Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.


That’s the thing though...
I’m never disappointed in what the park does. I’ve welcomed every addition we’ve had in the past and will continue to do so. So if it’s a water park addition then I will be happy. I waited years and years for the water park to get built since it never happened on the other side of the tollway along with the entertainment complex that was supposed to go up. So bring on whatever they’re gonna do because this is my home park and I’ve been going to it since it opened and will continue to do so no matter what they do. I love this park and the fact that we get something new each year is a blessing to me.


Even ignite? Be honest, would you rather get something every single year even if that meant the addition sucked? Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy if we got nothing for a year and just got part infrastructure improvements. Refurbished buildings, removal of blacktop, cleaned up landscaping, whatever.


Not sure why you think that’s proof it’s a water park addition? That is directly to your right as you’re walking into the water park. I’m almost positive that is where they brought in the equipment for the demo of the pictorioum. When the water park first opened the fences weren’t up exposing that whole side of demo site. After demo was done the fences went back up.


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Postby JackGlass on August 7th, 2018, 3:48 pm
Goku1910 wrote:
B&MGuy35 wrote:
tribar wrote:Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.


That’s the thing though...
I’m never disappointed in what the park does. I’ve welcomed every addition we’ve had in the past and will continue to do so. So if it’s a water park addition then I will be happy. I waited years and years for the water park to get built since it never happened on the other side of the tollway along with the entertainment complex that was supposed to go up. So bring on whatever they’re gonna do because this is my home park and I’ve been going to it since it opened and will continue to do so no matter what they do. I love this park and the fact that we get something new each year is a blessing to me.


Even ignite? Be honest, would you rather get something every single year even if that meant the addition sucked? Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy if we got nothing for a year and just got part infrastructure improvements. Refurbished buildings, removal of blacktop, cleaned up landscaping, whatever.


I agree, they need to dump this "Every park gets something new every year" strategy. It's a dumb self imposed constraint.

If Capex were increased to 13.5% from it's current 9% That would give Six Flags $100 Million a year for new rides and $100 Million a year for in park improvements and upkeep. $200 Million a year Capex

One year focus on the 11 small parks and the next focus on the 4 large parks. For example

2020

Six Flags St Louis - $20 Million Mack hyper
Great Escape - $5 Million Lech clone
Darien Lake - $9 Million Free spin and Skywarp
Frontier City - $7 Million Raptor clone
La Ronde - $ 7 Million Freespin
Six Flags Mexico - $7 Million Sky Rocket 2
Six Flags Discovery Kingdom - $5 Million Lech clone
Six Flags New England - $9 Million Raptor clone and Skywarp
Six Flags America - $9 Million Freespin and skywarp
Six Flags Fiesta Texas - $7 Million Sky Rocket 2
Six Flags Over Georgia $15 Million Wing Coaster

Total = $100 Million.

2021

Magic Mountain - $30 Million B&M Giga
Great America $30 Million B&M Giga
Great Adventure - $20 Million B&M Dive Machine
Over Texas - $20 Million B&M Dive Machine

Total = $100 Million

A simple change in strategy could yield much different results. Those smaller parks used to get much better numbers than they do today. This current strategy leaves them fighting over Super loops and rides that just won't encourage people to go there..... Six Flags America being a perfect example.... who get's excited about a lazy river upgrade? Come on guys they're adding scenery to the lazy river let's buy passes! Said no one ever, lol.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on August 7th, 2018, 4:37 pm
^ That's actually a pretty good strategy but sadly we know Six Flags would never use that strategy for some excuse but you never know.

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Postby JackGlass on August 7th, 2018, 5:20 pm
_FuryBull_330_ wrote:^ That's actually a pretty good strategy but sadly we know Six Flags would never use that strategy for some excuse but you never know.

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Thanks! Those smaller parks are untapped gold and this current strategy gives people little to no incentive to visit them! Kentucky Kingdom was a perfect example of Good leadership under Ed Hart gone horribly wrong under Six Flags.

When Ed Hart first took over Kentucky Kingdom in the early 90's it was barely getting 300,000 guests per year. By the time he sold it to premier parks, it was getting over 1 Million guests per year and they projected that it could crack 2 Million! Ed kept the park clean, infrasturucture in great shape and added rides that actually made people want to visit Kentucky kingdom.

Premier Parks (Six Flags) took over and they started removing major attractions starting with the Vampire roller coaster and replacing them with junk rides. They let the infrastructure crumble and let the overall quality of the park decline. As a result attendance in 2009 plummeted below 400,000. Now that Ed Hart is back in control, and that old startegy is back, attendance is rising again and peope actually have an incentive to visit Kentucky Kingdom.

The shareholders wouldn't like the idea of raising Capex by 4.5% But they're only screwing themselves over by not tapping potential gold mines. Beautifying your parks and adding rides that actually make people want to go there seems crazy enough to work, lol
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Postby WolfRaging95 on August 7th, 2018, 6:57 pm
Did anybody think that this new attraction will be themed to someone from the Justice League with the toll being in the teaser?
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on August 7th, 2018, 8:04 pm
WolfRaging95 wrote:Did anybody think that this new attraction will be themed to someone from the Justice League with the toll being in the teaser?
I'm really thinking this is simply a Wonder Woman Golden Lasso clone; the Justice League towel, the yellow and red in the logo too. The entire water park and racing theme is probably just trying to throw us off. I can't wait for the next teaser to find out more!

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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on August 7th, 2018, 8:47 pm
^ Or if it's a launched coaster it's The Flash.

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Postby SFGAM_Hog on August 8th, 2018, 7:03 am
^ Oh, I didn't think of that one.

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Postby Sven18 on August 8th, 2018, 8:10 am
JackGlass wrote:

If Capex were increased to 13.5% from it's current 9% That would give Six Flags $100 Million a year for new rides and $100 Million a year for in park improvements and upkeep. $200 Million a year Capex


No increasing Capex to 13.5% would not give SF $200M in Capex. SF's Capex is based on North American Revenue. SF total Capex with foreign is 1.36B, minus 30M last year in foreign(that number is going up big as they did close to 15M foreign last quarter), NA revenue is 1.33B so 13.5% would be about $179B. To get 200M Capex revenue would have to about 1.5B North American. Second SF, does not split ride and park improvements 50/50. It's a 60% rides, 25% asset management, 15% non rides in park distribution. Finally, SF is not increasing Capex, they are actually been alluding quarter after quarter on cutting the %. SF has stated multiple times they are happy with their gross expenditure even as revenue rises.
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Postby JackGlass on August 8th, 2018, 8:51 am
Sven18 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:

If Capex were increased to 13.5% from it's current 9% That would give Six Flags $100 Million a year for new rides and $100 Million a year for in park improvements and upkeep. $200 Million a year Capex


No increasing Capex to 13.5% would not give SF $200M in Capex. SF's Capex is based on North American Revenue. SF total Capex with foreign is 1.36B, minus 30M last year in foreign(that number is going up big as they did close to 15M foreign last quarter), NA revenue is 1.33B so 13.5% would be about $179B. To get 200M Capex revenue would have to about 1.5B North American. Second SF, does not split ride and park improvements 50/50. It's a 60% rides, 25% asset management, 15% non rides in park distribution. Finally, SF is not increasing Capex, they are actually been alluding quarter after quarter on cutting the %. SF has stated multiple times they are happy with their gross expenditure even as revenue rises.


This is all hypothetical Sven18, you need to stop taking everything so literally on a speculation forum. I understand that the cap is based on North American Revenue and doesn't include foreign revenue, this is a hypothetical situation based on all revenue and Six Flags changing it's strategy to be more like Cedar Fair. The new parks overseas aren't even being built by Six Flags, they're just being managed by them, which is actually a really sweet deal if everything turns out well.

I personally don't like the current strategy of giving every park soemthing new every year, because there are too many mouths to feed on a shoestring budget. The smaller parks get terrible rides that don't encourage people to visit them and the larger parks are left with mediocre attractions.

But that's the beauty of free will and the free market. If this years attraction at Great America turns out to be soemthing terrible, I'll simply just take two trips to Cedar point instead of renewing my pass!


As Goku said about general park improvements. Look at how beautiful Cdear Point looks with these pavers and the overall landscaping. I would LOVE Six Flags Great America to look like this, but with this current cheap skate straegy the chances of that happening are slim to none. I'm not trying to bash my home park, but criticism is needed from time to time.
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Postby Sven18 on August 8th, 2018, 9:45 am
JackGlass wrote:
Sven18 wrote:
JackGlass wrote:

If Capex were increased to 13.5% from it's current 9% That would give Six Flags $100 Million a year for new rides and $100 Million a year for in park improvements and upkeep. $200 Million a year Capex


No increasing Capex to 13.5% would not give SF $200M in Capex. SF's Capex is based on North American Revenue. SF total Capex with foreign is 1.36B, minus 30M last year in foreign(that number is going up big as they did close to 15M foreign last quarter), NA revenue is 1.33B so 13.5% would be about $179B. To get 200M Capex revenue would have to about 1.5B North American. Second SF, does not split ride and park improvements 50/50. It's a 60% rides, 25% asset management, 15% non rides in park distribution. Finally, SF is not increasing Capex, they are actually been alluding quarter after quarter on cutting the %. SF has stated multiple times they are happy with their gross expenditure even as revenue rises.


This is all hypothetical Sven18, you need to stop taking everything so literally on a speculation forum. I understand that the cap is based on North American Revenue and doesn't include foreign revenue, this is a hypothetical situation based on all revenue and Six Flags changing it's strategy to be more like Cedar Fair. The new parks overseas aren't even being built by Six Flags, they're just being managed by them, which is actually a really sweet deal if everything turns out well.

I personally don't like the current strategy of giving every park soemthing new every year, because there are too many mouths to feed on a shoestring budget. The smaller parks get terrible rides that don't encourage people to visit them and the larger parks are left with mediocre attractions.

But that's the beauty of free will and the free market. If this years attraction at Great America turns out to be soemthing terrible, I'll simply just take two trips to Cedar point instead of renewing my pass!


As Goku said about general park improvements. Look at how beautiful Cdear Point looks with these pavers and the overall landscaping. I would LOVE Six Flags Great America to look like this, but with this current cheap skate straegy the chances of that happening are slim to none. I'm not trying to bash my home park, but criticism is needed from time to time.


If you're going to take the time to do calculations on a hypothetical they should be done right. 200 Capex would require almost 14.8% of total revenue. SF is not CF and has no desire to be and CF has no desire to be SF. The two chains have taken 2 completely different business strategies and it can be largely surmised by who runs the chains. SF is run by Wall Street people and turn around gurus, that's what Anderson was before SF, he had no theme park background. He viewed SF just like his other take over projects, cut costs(investment) and maximize investor return. SF thus returns every excess dollar to investors in dividend or stock buybacks. CF is run by theme park people, past Disney people or other chains or longterm CF people in the higher ranks. They thus think differently, the aesthetics and other stuff you mentioned are more a concern to them much more than SF. I have been to many SF parks just this year where as you approach the gate and or parking lot your first visual is a coaster that is in bad need of pain job or has patches of visual rust..ie...SFOG or a wood coaster with half the paint coming off as you go past the parking tolls..ie....SFOT. Compare that to Wonderland, Carowinds, Cedar Point where your first visual is a Leviathan, Fury and Gatekeeper.
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Postby JackGlass on August 8th, 2018, 10:07 am
Sven18. Dude relax, it's a speculation forum about roller coasters, not a life or death issue! I never said any of this stuff was going to happen, it's purely hypothetical on my behalf. If a hypothetical calculation that's off by less than 1% by some random guy on the internet bothers you that much please seek mental help! I say this out of concern not insult

As far as Six Flags goes. They can do whatever they want with their parks and I want them to make as much money as possible (obviously so they stay in business) I feel there's untapped gold in these smaller parks based on past attendance numbers and Time Warner era management. and again, that's why this is a speculation forum.
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Postby IssaCoaster on August 8th, 2018, 2:35 pm
JackGlass wrote:Sven18. Dude relax, it's a speculation forum about roller coasters, not a life or death issue! I never said any of this stuff was going to happen, it's purely hypothetical on my behalf. If a hypothetical calculation that's off by less than 1% by some random guy on the internet bothers you that much please seek mental help! I say this out of concern not insult

As far as Six Flags goes. They can do whatever they want with their parks and I want them to make as much money as possible (obviously so they stay in business) I feel there's untapped gold in these smaller parks based on past attendance numbers and Time Warner era management. and again, that's why this is a speculation forum.

Jack Glass... I actually really liked that plan you brought up. Never do it again please :lol: . It makes me sad knowing how much more successful the parks could be if they took that strategy. For now... let's hang tight until the next teaser. I just feel as if this next one will make it clear it is not a water park addition.
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Postby Ilovthevu' on August 8th, 2018, 3:12 pm
No matter what the park gets, it's not going to be Cedar Point. 1 ride should not determine whether or not you renew your season pass or not. If Cedar Point is your dream park, go to your dream park, and forget Great America than. I just don't get it. I never think of visiting some other park for just 1 ride. If it's just 1 new ride, it's going to be a pretty boring day at a park. To me, Great America has been adding a bunch of not great rides for awhile (in my opinion), but they still have a bunch of older rides I like. I do not go to Great America for 1 ride, and I will not go to another amusement park for just 1 ride. It's a waste to me. Sure, 1 ride at any amusement park might be your favorite, but yet you have a whole park to explore.

Great America is absolutely, positively NOT perfect. In my opinion, It needs a lot of changes (cough entertainment - I'm more entertained at the Kane County Fair / Dupage County Fair), but it's also the amusement park that is close to me, so I deal with the bad, and I enjoy the good / great. I'm different than you, but if I want to go to my favorite park (Six Flags Over Texas), I just would go both. I know though that Cedar Point is Cedar Fair, and you would have to buy tickets to Cedar Point.

Blacktop doesn't bother me. That doesn't mean anything to me. A garbage ride like buccaneer battle bothers me. Blacktop = who cares for me. Stupid nox bothers me. Sky Trek Tower CLOSED at 2pm bothers me, etc. The Hangover name bothers me (Hangover = people that are drunk, and the day after) - The 10 year olds that are riding that ride... should get drunk than. Hangtime at Knott's Berry Farm is an AWESOME name. Hangover (in my opinion) is a complete garbage name.
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Postby benneluke on August 8th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Ilovthevu' wrote:Great America is absolutely, positively NOT perfect....but it's also the amusement park that is close to me, so I deal with the bad, and I enjoy the good / great.

Blacktop doesn't bother me. That doesn't mean anything to me. A garbage ride like buccaneer battle bothers me. Blacktop = who cares for me. Stupid nox bothers me. Sky Trek Tower CLOSED at 2pm bothers me, etc. Hangover (in my opinion) is a complete garbage name.


I agree with everything you said. Although I think an investment in landscaping and paint would be great. Its sad to see things rotting away (Orleans Place/Hometown Square brick walls, HTS buildings, etc.)
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