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2019 rumors, thoughts, speculation

Talk about anything that has to do with Six Flags Great America and Hurricane Harbor here.
Postby Dan The Coaster Man on April 25th, 2018, 11:31 pm
I want to see Top Gun Vekoma or even a Formula One clone in Pictorium space. But realistically, I see pictorium as the only space to expand the waterpark. I never go into HH, quite frankly I don't know what they have and don't have... Water coaster is something they don't have and pictorium could fit that. Not sure how much they actually want to invest in HH though. But I don't really see anywhere else they could expand unfortunately.
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Postby Ilovthevu' on April 25th, 2018, 11:43 pm
I just don't see them getting finished with all of that for this year. I think the reason they are starting so early is because of the Pictorium known to be on a hill, so that's a lot of dirt to move- concrete / dirt underneath it. With them now being opening till New Years, the ground is frozen during that time. January & February are not that good either for the weather.
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Postby SFGAMNUT9302 on April 26th, 2018, 2:05 am
It's sad to see the Pictorium go, but we all knew it was going to happen eventually. Just like Buccaneer Battle, it's unpopular and sits on prime real estate in a nearly landlocked park. Whatever replaces it, will almost certainly be something very appealing to the eye and something the park can market like all hell! Seeing as that it's right in the front of the park!
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 6:30 am
Speaking of Battle, Wonder Woman looks so small it could fit at there.....That would be a much better use of space compared to Pictorium for something like that. Whatever they're plans are for Pictorium I just hope that it's not a Hurricane Harbor Expansion despite how likely it is.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on April 26th, 2018, 7:29 am
Goku1910 wrote:Speaking of Battle, Wonder Woman looks so small it could fit at there.....That would be a much better use of space compared to Pictorium for something like that. Whatever they're plans are for Pictorium I just hope that it's not a Hurricane Harbor Expansion despite how likely it is.

I did say I want a raptor there did I, silly me :lol: . Well now that I saw how horrible the capacity is, I don't see it going here since this is supposed to be for smaller parks.
Ilovthevu' wrote:I just don't see them getting finished with all of that for this year. I think the reason they are starting so early is because of the Pictorium known to be on a hill, so that's a lot of dirt to move- concrete / dirt underneath it. With them now being opening till New Years, the ground is frozen during that time. January & February are not that good either for the weather.

They can make a water coaster that interacts with the terrain. Yes it's possible.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on April 26th, 2018, 9:31 am
Hopefully IF a water coaster goes where Pictorium is, it's NOT part of HH. Something like Poseidon would be sweet! My fear is that it will take a while to pass between the parks. Also if HH becomes a separate park, will Six Flags make it an upcharge on the Passes and Memberships? I've never even been inside HH but was planning on trying it at least once this year!
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 9:37 am
Well if you're trying this year you should be fine seeing as this is the 2019 speculation thread.

.....assuming the separate gate thing at Hurricane Harbor actually happens. This has been rumored and debunked more times than I can count.
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Postby Jodon on April 26th, 2018, 10:21 am
_FuryBull_330_ wrote:
Goku1910 wrote:Speaking of Battle, Wonder Woman looks so small it could fit at there.....That would be a much better use of space compared to Pictorium for something like that. Whatever they're plans are for Pictorium I just hope that it's not a Hurricane Harbor Expansion despite how likely it is.

I did say I want a raptor there did I, silly me :lol: . Well now that I saw how horrible the capacity is, I don't see it going here since this is supposed to be for smaller parks.


Six Flags doesn't care about capacity of the new rides. Six Flags had the option of getting the larger Free Fly models for their larger parks and went with the cheaper/shorter option. If we were to get a coaster in the Pictorium spot, it will likely be a Raptor because it's cheaper.

I still think that a water park expansion will be what happens. I think they will move the HH entrance to the just to the right of the season pass entrance to center it more with the main path around the tide pool. I could see them using the Pictorium space for a water coaster, which I think would be a great addition. I've only been on the water coasters at Holiday World, so I've been spoiled, but I think they are great rides and would love to have a good one closer to me.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on April 26th, 2018, 12:29 pm
I don't know how water coasters are besides my experience with Thunder Rapids. If they can put something like Thunder Rapids in that spot it would be great, and in traditional Six Flags style you can try to break every single record. Something like tallest,fastest,steepest water coaster yet. I didn't put longest because Mammoth is really long and I don't think something like that can fit in there.
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Postby staticshadows on April 26th, 2018, 1:21 pm
Here is an image of the Pictorium area with Thunder Rapids from SFFT and the new kids area from SFA at approximate scale. If they put in a custom water coaster, it would be interesting if they were able to go over the train and into the area behind Whizzer. In addition to this, I could see Kidzopolis going away and some of the rides added to Hometown Park and Camp Cartoon as part of a retheme. With the addition of Holiday in the Park, it would make sense to build up Hometown Park a bit more. The games could move over to the former Sky Trail location.
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 1:25 pm
That's a lot of wasted space between.
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Postby staticshadows on April 26th, 2018, 1:31 pm
^I don't think it's that bad when you figure in additional seating areas and a possible new restaurant and gift shop.
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Postby Sven18 on April 26th, 2018, 1:37 pm
Goku1910 wrote:Well if you're trying this year you should be fine seeing as this is the 2019 speculation thread.

.....assuming the separate gate thing at Hurricane Harbor actually happens. This has been rumored and debunked more times than I can count.


HH as separate is how SF does it for SFMM, SFGAdv, SFOT...most would say those are 3 of the top 4 parks in the chain. GAm wants to be in the top category so they could do the same. Also, a thing to consider is SF push for converting season pass holders to memberships, HH could be part of the enticement. Reid Anderson harped on conversion to memberships in the Q1 conference call. Memberships have higher retention rates, cost less to retain, more likely to buy dining passes, and spend more. All of this according to conf call.

SF pricing structure is being set that it makes little sense to get a season pass at any park, not to mention the parks with separate HH's. it would make sense for GAm to separate HH and go to the same pricing strcuture and it would drive the conversion to membership sales up, which SF wants. Atleast gold membership is obvious choice and platinum is just a small jump. $2 a month from gold plus to platinum most won't notice in comparison if it was a lump sum of $24. The small increments is also a psychological thing that will get many to by a membership beyond the lowest level of gold plus

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1 park pass $85
2 park reg pass $140
2 park gold pass $160
Gold plus member $94 - gold benefits +access to all HH's, priority entry, % discounts, ride times, etc...
Platinum member $118 -
Diamond member $154
Diamond elite member $226

SFOT
1 park gold pass $87
2 park gold pass $97
Gold plus member $84 - gold benefits +access to all HH's, priority entry, % discounts, ride times, etc...
Platinum member $108 -
Diamond member $144
Diamond elite member $216
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Postby Ilovthevu' on April 26th, 2018, 1:39 pm
I would think they would want to put that waterslide to go over the railroad tracks. They are getting rid of too many trees near the Whizzer to not mean something + you have space, why not use as much space as you can. Of course though, I don't know the highest points of this waterslide - to make sure it would fit over the train tracks. 1/2 near the Whizzer & 1/2 (the station) on the other side.

"SF pricing structure is being set that it makes little sense to get a season pass at any park, not to mention the parks with separate HH's."

A season pass during the sale is cheaper than a membership, and even at Magic Mountain, that waterpark is included if you have a Magic Mountain gold season pass. A membership is a waste of money to me, so if you want to be a member, so be it. The only difference is that if you care to visit one of those (probably 5 - like Over Georgia's, and some other ones) separate other waterparks. If you are from Great America, and you want to visit Magic Mountain's waterpark, a gold season pass won't let you. Seriously though, do people really care to go to the other Six Flags waterparks that aren't close by? I don't care.
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 1:39 pm
My point was that if it does change, it probably won't be until 2019.

...but OK.....
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Postby SFGAMNUT9302 on April 26th, 2018, 2:02 pm
For some reason I have a feeling they will surprise everyone in 2019. I just can't see them wasting that space on a Water Park expansion, when they could easily rip up some more parking lot for a Hurricane Harbor expansion (Remember, they were going to remove alot of parking spaces and most of entrance plaza for Chang back when it was supposed to come) A coaster that interacts with Sky Trek Tower would be amazing, I hope that's what they end up going with...... Great America has been treated differently than other parks in recent years, we are the only park to get a new B&M in recent times and a Ground up RMC.... So spending a little extra for our Park isn't that farfetched
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 2:06 pm
Well Six Flags hasn't opened a single B&M since X-flight. As for a ground up RMC, Goliath was the only one up until Wonder Woman.

The current business model doesn't seem to support "going all out". I would be on board for an RMC single rail if it was a T-Rex and not a clone of Wonder Woman but I just don't see it likely. As mentioned above, Six Flags has been really pushing these somewhat questionable memberships and a waterpark expansion combined with the switch to memberships over season passes would be the perfect opportunity.
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Postby Sven18 on April 26th, 2018, 3:31 pm
Ilovthevu' wrote:
A season pass during the sale is cheaper than a membership, and even at Magic Mountain, that waterpark is included if you have a Magic Mountain gold season pass. A membership is a waste of money to me, so if you want to be a member, so be it. The only difference is that if you care to visit one of those (probably 5 - like Over Georgia's, and some other ones) separate other waterparks. If you are from Great America, and you want to visit Magic Mountain's waterpark, a gold season pass won't let you. Seriously though, do people really care to go to the other Six Flags waterparks that aren't close by? I don't care.


You need to go read thru the pricing and the benefits of each. Buying a season pass makes zero sense with the current pricing structure and benefits(which I did not list in detail). Flash sale prices at the parks with separate entry for HH are not like the parks where HH is included. ie..2 park combo pass at MM was $95(during flash sale), gold membership is $94 now, memberships have not been on sale during flash traditionally. Btw, if SF really wants to push conversion to memberships they are logically going to make the pass discounts less besides their removal of past pass benefit to memberships.

I'm not a WP person. but getting into another WP is important for many especially if it's one of the parks that has a water coaster and you're visiting and you're home park doesn't have it. Also, there are a lot of other benefits to membership. You need to look at the chart b/c they are stripping things from season passes such as exclusive ride times, in park discounts for food, merchandise, flash pass, etc.. Many of the coupons/discounts for passes on the app are being removed and available thru memberships only. They are devaluing passes and making it necessary to get the lowest membership level to get what was previously gotten via a gold season pass(fee upgrade in the past during flash sale).
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Postby Sven18 on April 26th, 2018, 3:44 pm
Goku1910 wrote:Well Six Flags hasn't opened a single B&M since X-flight. As for a ground up RMC, Goliath was the only one up until Wonder Woman.

The current business model doesn't seem to support "going all out". I would be on board for an RMC single rail if it was a T-Rex and not a clone of Wonder Woman but I just don't see it likely. As mentioned above, Six Flags has been really pushing these somewhat questionable memberships and a waterpark expansion combined with the switch to memberships over season passes would be the perfect opportunity.


What's questionable about memberships?

It's really smart for SF to push them. Members spend more, more likely to buy dining passes, higher retention rate than passes, less cost to acquire and retain, drive higher revenue, higher in park per caps. This is what Anderson said in Q1 call about membership push. Unfortunately SF still won't spend on big rides b/c they have no reason to change the cap exp formula. Most of the patron base remains satisfied with the inexpensive clones. Also, there are some good low cost coasters that have been recently introduced by Vekoma and others. I would not expect to see a B&M or Intamin at SF parks in the future.
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 3:47 pm
And that's exactly what's disappointing. People are expected to spend more at parks that are seeing less unique identity and investment.

How many 4D free-fly coasters does Six Flags have with the exact same layout? Five?
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Postby Guy_With_A_Stick on April 26th, 2018, 3:52 pm
But how many does corporate expect people to ride? Most of the people who go to Six Flags parks only go to one, maybe two. They don't travel across the US to go to every single park like some of us do. People who live in New England don't care about what Six Flags Magic Mountain is getting. Six Flags adds clones to parks because they know they'll do well. They test new ride types out at one or two parks. If they're successful, they roll them out to other parks. If they don't do well, then they don't add any more.

Six Flags is a business. Their goal is to make money. They would gladly add in cheaper, cloned rides than spend an extra $5,000,000+ to please less than 5% of the total park attendance.
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Postby Goku1910 on April 26th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Even if those attractions suck? I would feel much more inclined to go to other SF parks if there was a reason to, sadly though there really isn't since they have all the same generic rides.

Not to mention the recent shift to "carnival" style flats that I have no interest in since it lacks a sense of value and it seems like the easy way out. Memberships are only good for the chain as they are steady income instead of an outright purchase you only get once. Tons of companies do this and it's a trend that won't die anytime soon.

I'm honestly surprised X-Flight was never cloned since it's legitimately an awesome coaster.
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Postby _FuryBull_330_ on April 26th, 2018, 4:05 pm
Guy_With_A_Stick wrote:But how many does corporate expect people to ride? Most of the people who go to Six Flags parks only go to one, maybe two. They don't travel across the US to go to every single park like some of us do. People who live in New England don't care about what Six Flags Magic Mountain is getting. Six Flags adds clones to parks because they know they'll do well. They test new ride types out at one or two parks. If they're successful, they roll them out to other parks. If they don't do well, then they don't add any more.

Six Flags is a business. Their goal is to make money. They would gladly add in cheaper, cloned rides than spend an extra $5,000,000+ to please less than 5% of the total park attendance.

You're right, the more they have less unique stuff at other parks for us.Ffor all the people besides some of us will think it's unique to them. Now that I think of it that's why they clone things like 4d freespins. They work on a based attendance and if the new attractions are not loved anymore in a local community than they introduce new material. This is going great, their attendance in total has risen about 8% since last year.
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Postby Sven18 on April 26th, 2018, 4:07 pm
Goku1910 wrote:And that's exactly what's disappointing. People are expected to spend more at parks that are seeing less unique identity and investment.

How many 4D free-fly coasters does Six Flags have with the exact same layout? Five?



If you want to take the glass half full approach, every 100M SF produces in North American park revenue increases the ride budget by 5.4M. Thus, increased spending by patrons has an effect. The cheap cost of SF always came at a cost, cloned rides come out a discount. SF talks about how they get the best prices, they buy in bulk, like going to Costco. There are 6 Free fly's and I wouldn't be surprised if Stl got one, they fit the profile of the others that have them. Stl needs a coaster and I don't see SF giving them a Raptor. Predict GAm gets 1st midwest Raptor in the chain. 1st east coast Raptor to GAdv, not SFA though SFA needs a coaster badly like Stl. SF has a coaster pecking order and Stl and SFA are towards the bottom.
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Postby Sven18 on April 26th, 2018, 4:10 pm
Goku1910 wrote:
I'm honestly surprised X-Flight was never cloned since it's legitimately an awesome coaster.


X-flight costs too much to clone across the chain. It's the most expensive coaster SF bought post bankruptcy.
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