Rally for removal of Raging Bull's trim brake

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 3:30 pm

Now that we know the Joker will be drawing gp crowds, and at first us enthusiasts as well, to the left side of the park, it is time to finally stand up collectively and advocate for the removal of that damn trim brake and for a slight refurbish/repaint of the Bull to prevent the decrease in its ridership.

I contend that the airtime hill trim brake is completely unnecessary, as both Diamondback at KI and Gatekeeper at CP both have noticeably more rattle than Raging Bull despite being much newer high speed B&M coasters. I am open to any arguments as to why the trim brake is necessary and should be kept, though I doubt many will take that position.

I have recently contacted SFGAm management through a few channels to advocate for this change and ask why they feel the trim is necessary, and I encourage all of you to ask them the same questions and rally for restoring RB to its full potential.

by **Guy_With_A_Stick** on September 2nd, 2016, 3:36 pm

Do I want it removed? Yes.

Will it happen? Probably not.

Unless if B&M has a reason to remove them, don't count on anything

Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk

by **RollingCoasting** on September 2nd, 2016, 3:52 pm

Yeah.... this is probably going to be locked.....

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 3:54 pm

If we do and say nothing it definitely won't happen. But no seasoned coaster rider can deny the airtime-less hill and slow crawl banked turn are quite boring, and it is obvious crowds throughout the day leave Raging Bull and flock to Goliath, Batman, and next year the Joker.
If we all separately present these concerns to park management as part of a collective push, then it is likely the park will at least answer with reasons to keep the trim or a future plan to selectively deactivate or completely remove it.

by **JaminOut** on September 2nd, 2016, 5:44 pm

I'll make this easy. If you are reading this post and you have noticed the trim brake slowing the ride down, go contact Great America on their contact page. If you haven't heard about this trim brake or don't feel it needs to be removed, ignore this thread.

I believe Raging Bull's trim brake and block brake kick in WAY too hard, they should at least tone it down 50%

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 6:34 pm

The MCBR is more forgivable since if you loosened that 50% or more, you would have taller riders in a lot of leg pain due to the g force in the figure 8, similar to Raptor at CP with its helix which I enjoy but many don't. All I want is some floater air in every car on the 140 ft hill and a decent floating speed on the banked curve hill following it.

by **FParker185** on September 2nd, 2016, 7:33 pm

B&M mandates all the brakes on the ride and they dictate the speed that they are set to trim at. If you want a trimless ride, ride it early in the day with an empty train when it's already going to slow for them to activate. The park has no control over them without assuming all liability.

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 7:50 pm

That's obviously not the case as Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens is from the same year and has the same drop and speed yet it is packed with airtime, and Diamondback at KI puts the Bull to shame even without the trim brakes. Great America's management clearly thinks airtime is either overrated or "too scary", and we see the same thing on the first drop of the American Eagle. I wouldn't be surprised if they apply brakes to Goliath or eventually remove its ejector airtime hill.

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 7:53 pm

And from a maintenance perspective, since there is no rattle or extra wear now due to the hill, then surely they can use the same upstop wheels and parts as Diamondback to allow for the airtime that B&M clearly intended.

by **JaminOut** on September 2nd, 2016, 8:12 pm

Wisco Woody wrote:That's obviously not the case as Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens is from the same year and has the same drop and speed yet it is packed with airtime, and Diamondback at KI puts the Bull to shame even without the trim brakes. Great America's management clearly thinks airtime is either overrated or "too scary", and we see the same thing on the first drop of the American Eagle. I wouldn't be surprised if they apply brakes to Goliath or eventually remove its ejector airtime hill.

Is this a joke?

by **astucks18** on September 2nd, 2016, 8:12 pm

How much airtime Apollo's and diamondback get is irrelevant. Six flags maintenance cannot just shut off the trim without permission from B&M.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by **maxwellt** on September 2nd, 2016, 8:54 pm

Heres what I want to see

Extended RB layout, it would be all about the airtime! So where the RB extension is, that land would probably not be used for a long time, because putting an attraction there would be awkward, awkward with the queue and ruining the RB presence, and who dosent want to see RB with more airtime!?! Another thing to note, the red is the scrapped track, THATS IT! Not much at all, and if SF wanted to, they could take a chunk of that track, and put it by the entrance where the test seat is to show what the track is like for RB, and maybe give some facts, like trains use to go across this track at speeds of 50+ mph (probs wrong with the speed lol)

by **maxwellt** on September 2nd, 2016, 8:56 pm

JaminOut wrote:Is this a joke?

It has to be

Sent from my SM-G920R6 using Tapatalk

by **FParker185** on September 2nd, 2016, 9:20 pm

Apollos Chariot and RB are 2 totally different rides, B&M never copy and pastes element, every element on every ride is custom designed and they have determined that the appropriate speed for cresting the hill is xx.xx mph, and the trims are set accordingly to ensure that is the case every time.

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 9:41 pm

Have you ridden another B&M hyper? Apollo's Chariot has the same drop, same trains, same wheels, same 2nd hill after the drop, the only difference is that there aren't any active trim brakes on AC, and that's why it has floater airtime and RB does not. The only reason B&M would put such strong trim brakes on a functionally identical coaster is if SFGAm management asked them to, as RB's hill without the trims has the same airtime as AC's 3rd hill. I've never ridden Nitro but that is only 2 years newer and is also functionally identical to RB and AC and is packed with airtime.

by **ilrider** on September 2nd, 2016, 10:09 pm

Wisco Woody wrote:Have you ridden another B&M hyper? Apollo's Chariot has the same drop, same trains, same wheels, same 2nd hill after the drop, the only difference is that there aren't any active trim brakes on AC, and that's why it has floater airtime and RB does not. The only reason B&M would put such strong trim brakes on a functionally identical coaster is if SFGAm management asked them to, as RB's hill without the trims has the same airtime as AC's 3rd hill. I've never ridden Nitro but that is only 2 years newer and is also functionally identical to RB and AC and is packed with airtime.

What do you mean AC has the same second hill as RB after the drop? RB goes into an overbanked turn after the drop before the airtime hill with the trim brake; AC goes straight into the airtime hill. The profiles of the two rides are nothing alike.

Trim brakes are on coasters for a reason. It is not going away, as much as we may dislike it.

by **JaminOut** on September 2nd, 2016, 10:10 pm

Wisco Woody wrote:Have you ridden another B&M hyper? Apollo's Chariot has the same drop, same trains, same wheels, same 2nd hill after the drop, the only difference is that there aren't any active trim brakes on AC, and that's why it has floater airtime and RB does not. The only reason B&M would put such strong trim brakes on a functionally identical coaster is if SFGAm management asked them to, as RB's hill without the trims has the same airtime as AC's 3rd hill. I've never ridden Nitro but that is only 2 years newer and is also functionally identical to RB and AC and is packed with airtime.

Is this a joke?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by **chrisisdragon** on September 2nd, 2016, 10:16 pm

JaminOut wrote:
Wisco Woody wrote:Have you ridden another B&M hyper? Apollo's Chariot has the same drop, same trains, same wheels, same 2nd hill after the drop, the only difference is that there aren't any active trim brakes on AC, and that's why it has floater airtime and RB does not. The only reason B&M would put such strong trim brakes on a functionally identical coaster is if SFGAm management asked them to, as RB's hill without the trims has the same airtime as AC's 3rd hill. I've never ridden Nitro but that is only 2 years newer and is also functionally identical to RB and AC and is packed with airtime.

Is this a joke?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it is a joke its not really funny

by **Wisco Woody** on September 2nd, 2016, 10:22 pm

First of all RB's first turn is not an overbank, it's barely even a hammerhead. Secondly, notice I referred to RB's 3rd hill, the "airtime?" hill, and AC's 2nd hill, it's main airtime hill. I should clarify that without the trims RB has identical floater airtime to the 3rd hill on AC that has a curved downward exit. It should be obvious that if every single other B&M hyper has floater airtime with little or no trims and RB doesn't, it is not B&M who decided to place such an overpowered trim but rather SFGAm that ordered B&M to place it.