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Postby gottastrata33 on November 28th, 2016, 3:26 am
Raging Bull was built in 1999. This is going to be 2017 soon. Don't compare the two. What we have is great for a hyper. Now take that Energylandia concept & put it into giga form for us, it'd be a sweet ride to have.

Since we have a hyper twister, I'd love an out & back giga. This way the two are very different ride style wise, not just statistically.
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Postby Wisco Woody on November 28th, 2016, 1:18 pm
Raging Bull is not great for a hyper, it is quite weak given its potential for G force and airtime. Even if the ridiculous trim was removed, the mid course brakes and completely unnecessary final trim prevent any good air for the front rows and limit the positive Gs to 3.5-4. An out and back mega-hyper or giga like EL's future Intamin would be perfect for a 2020 addition, but the Park officials likely feel at this point that RB is sufficient based on its longer lines.
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Postby Coaster Justin on November 28th, 2016, 11:08 pm
Don't see an Intamin Hyper for a few reasons:
1- Zoomanjaro
2- Falcon's Fury
3- I305
4- Shoot the Rapids

Mack Maybe, But I don't see it cause of Space/Height/Cost/NIMBY's
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Postby RollingCoasting on November 28th, 2016, 11:17 pm
A Mack Mega-lite would be a perfect fit
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Postby Coaster Justin on November 29th, 2016, 11:28 pm
RollingCoasting wrote:A Mack Mega-lite would be a perfect fit



How about instead of a mega-lite (Turns and short hills), How about just a Huge airtime O&B Coaster.
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Postby Wisco Woody on December 11th, 2016, 10:48 pm
It's only a matter of time, 2020 or 2021 at the latest, until a competitor park constructs a large 90+ mph coaster, which is realistically the modern benchmark for a coaster to truly be considered "high speed". Among Cedar Point, King's Island, Indiana Beach, Holiday World, and Mt Olympus, KI is the most likely to add either a giga coaster or high speed launcher in 2020/21, on top of whatever CP's big 150th anniversary addition in 2020 is. Six Flags missed their chance to build a 90+ launch coaster in 2001-2005, deciding to build V2, Superman, and Ragin Cajun in plots of land that could have been combined with the removal of the flumes and/or rapids.

Now SFGAm has a brief opportunity in 2019 or 2020 to beat the other parks to the punch with a true high speed coaster, and if V2 is removed a 90+ launcher akin to a modern Xcelerator or TTD would be most appropriate. If V2 stays, an out and back giga like Leviathan or Fury 325 replacing the flumes/rapids and creating an L layout around Superman would be a better choice. Either way, failing to construct a true high speed coaster is bound to be noticed by many regular SFGAm guests in Indiana, Illinois, and southern Michigan when one of the other nearby parks next opens one.
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Postby Coaster Justin on December 12th, 2016, 5:43 am
Wisco Woody wrote:It's only a matter of time, 2020 or 2021 at the latest, until a competitor park constructs a large 90+ mph coaster, which is realistically the modern benchmark for a coaster to truly be considered "high speed". Among Cedar Point, King's Island, Indiana Beach, Holiday World, and Mt Olympus, KI is the most likely to add either a giga coaster or high speed launcher in 2020/21, on top of whatever CP's big 150th anniversary addition in 2020 is. Six Flags missed their chance to build a 90+ launch coaster in 2001-2005, deciding to build V2, Superman, and Ragin Cajun in plots of land that could have been combined with the removal of the flumes and/or rapids.

Now SFGAm has a brief opportunity in 2019 or 2020 to beat the other parks to the punch with a true high speed coaster, and if V2 is removed a 90+ launcher akin to a modern Xcelerator or TTD would be most appropriate. If V2 stays, an out and back giga like Leviathan or Fury 325 replacing the flumes/rapids and creating an L layout around Superman would be a better choice. Either way, failing to construct a true high speed coaster is bound to be noticed by many regular SFGAm guests in Indiana, Illinois, and southern Michigan when one of the other nearby parks next opens one.



Cedar Point- Maybe
Kings Island- Maybe
Indiana Beach- Where would they put it? Also do you think they have a 10m+ budget for anything?
Holiday World- I don't see a major coaster from them before 2021
Mt. Olympus- HA HA HA HA! They don't even want to spend money on a second train for their coasters
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Postby Guy_With_A_Stick on December 12th, 2016, 6:08 am
Wisco Woody wrote:It's only a matter of time, 2020 or 2021 at the latest, until a competitor park constructs a large 90+ mph coaster, which is realistically the modern benchmark for a coaster to truly be considered "high speed". Among Cedar Point, King's Island, Indiana Beach, Holiday World, and Mt Olympus, KI is the most likely to add either a giga coaster or high speed launcher in 2020/21, on top of whatever CP's big 150th anniversary addition in 2020 is. Six Flags missed their chance to build a 90+ launch coaster in 2001-2005, deciding to build V2, Superman, and Ragin Cajun in plots of land that could have been combined with the removal of the flumes and/or rapids.

Now SFGAm has a brief opportunity in 2019 or 2020 to beat the other parks to the punch with a true high speed coaster, and if V2 is removed a 90+ launcher akin to a modern Xcelerator or TTD would be most appropriate. If V2 stays, an out and back giga like Leviathan or Fury 325 replacing the flumes/rapids and creating an L layout around Superman would be a better choice. Either way, failing to construct a true high speed coaster is bound to be noticed by many regular SFGAm guests in Indiana, Illinois, and southern Michigan when one of the other nearby parks next opens one.

But here's the thing, nobody wants a 90+ mph launch coaster. The Coaster Wars of the 90s and early 2000s are over. We don't want record breaking rides, we want GOOD rides. If it happens to break a record, then so be it. But if the defining factor of the ride is a silly gimmick, chances are it won't work out. Take Cedar Point for example. After Millennium Force, they decided to build Top Thrill Dragster, which is the 90+mph launch coaster you want so bad. They opened it, and closed it for repairs. It is a quite unreliable ride, breaking down almost every day for one reason or another. After a while, the gimmick got old, Kingda Ka beat the record, and CP wanted a new ride. They went to Intamin again, and decided to get Maverick. It breaks no records, has some uninteresting stats, and is rather small. Yet, it's regarded as one of, if not, the best ride at Cedar Point by both enthusiasts and GP. Nobody will be building any Intamin Strata Coaster any time soon, especially in the midwest. Cedar Fair is done with Intamin, as is Six Flags, and the independent parks have no chance of getting one in terms of both budget and maintenance.

If you want a live look at how gimmicky marketing is failing, look across the pond and see how Merlin is marketing their UK rides. Smiler- Most Inversions. Galactica/Air- First fully-integrated Roller Coaster VR experience. Nemesis Inferno- 'Most Intense Roller Coaster Experience'. The list goes on and on. Thankfully Blackpool is building a Mack Launch to tell the UK that you don't need to break records to be successful.
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Postby Wisco Woody on December 12th, 2016, 8:26 pm
I didn't say they need to build a record breaker, they simply need to build a true high speed coaster. This whole "Intamins are always broken down" statement is an enthusiast myth for those enthusiasts who haven't ridden many of them. I was at Cedar Point for 3 whole days this July, and the only Intamin with significant downtime was a one hour breakdown of Maverick for launch issues, a coaster nearly unmatched in its mechanical complexity and number of moving parts.

A Mack or Premier launch coaster has just as much downtime as an Intamin launcher. Six Flags has used Intamin as recently as Zumanjaro and Lex Luthor: Drop of Doom. Plus I would count on Six Flags building a round of shorter $15 to $20 million high speed launch coasters rather than dropping $25+ million on a giga coaster for any park other than Magic Mountain.
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Postby RollingCoasting on December 12th, 2016, 11:42 pm
When was the last time a Six Flags park got an Intamin launch coaster? 2005. That was before they filed for bankruptcy, and under different administration than today. Heck, we haven't even seen a 200 ft. + coaster in the chain since 2006, more than a decade ago. Like Cam said, the Coaster Wars are over. A mega-lite, for say, would be just as good as an addition for the park as a 90 MPH Giga would.

In the 2010's, roller coaster wise, Six Flags has been doing:

RMCS (2011-2016)
S&S Free Spins (2015-Present)
Various relocations (2011-2013)
Premier Launch coasters (2012-2013)
B&M Wing Coaster (2012)
Various kiddie coasters (2010-2014)
Intamin Zac-spin (2011)
Gerstaluer Eurofighter (2011)
*Also, I'm not saying Six Flags is going to stop adding nearly all of these, I just put a start and end year for reference.

I'm sure I missed 1 or 2, but do you see any Intamin launch coasters on that list? No. In fact, a grand spanking total of 1 coaster has been built by Intamin for Six Flags since 2010, and it's likely that no other park will be getting one. (A Zacspin, that is) Of course there were a few outliers on the list, mainly X-Flight, Dare Devil Dive, and Green Lantern: First Flight, but I just can't see an Intamin launch coaster being added anytime soon. Six Flags seems to have a system working out (Buying from one or two manufacturer and getting multiples of a coaster - I.e. - RMCS, Free-Spins...) Getting something like a Intamin Blitz, for say, just doesn't seem likely, atleast not at this time.

Of the options above, I think the most reasonable (And desirable for us SFGAm Fans) is a Premier Launch coaster. Full Throttle and Superman: Ultimate Flight have proved successful at their respective parks, perhaps Six Flags just wanted to wrap up their RMC deal (I'm not sure if it's over or not) before buying anything else from Premier. I definitely wouldn't be surprised to start seeing Sky Rocket 2's, maybe even a new cloned model appearing throughout the chain. (Though hopefully we'll finally get the custom, full circuit launch coaster we deserve :wink:)
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Postby Guy_With_A_Stick on December 12th, 2016, 11:57 pm
No, Intamin has SIGNIFICANTLY more downtime. A few examples...

-Skyrush was down most of 2012 when it opened.
-I305 had a massive reprofile, as well as adjusted trims. Additionally, the gearbox malfunctioned in July 2013, leaving the coaster closed for 2 months
-TTD and KK have had significant downtime their first few seasons. KK also had a few part failures, causing elongated downtime.
-Volcano: The Blast Coaster experienced lots of downtime it's opening season due to the LIM technology bugging out.

Anyway, regardless the manufacturer, we are not getting a 90+mph coaster. Like I said, the Coaster Wars are over. No park is trying to out-do one another in terms of speed and height. Six Flags has a system that involves a small addition, a few medium additions, and a large addition(as in RMC). Most of their investments cost no more than $15 million. If we are hypothetically going to get a 90 mph coaster, it'll most likely be a launched coaster. The only real option is to build a mini Kingda Ka/TTD, which can easily cost over $20 million. Not quite in their price range.

The only real reason parks build more things is because the GP wants more. Does the GP really care about what the park adds? No, not really. It's us enthusiasts that complain about new additions(for the most part). Most of us think that The Joker is a lame clone that isn't anything special. However, most everyone I know who's GP thinks it's the craziest thing they've seen. The GP has the money, and Six Flags wants that money, and don't want to spend too much to get it. Like I stated in another thread, "Six Flags' current system works great for them, so there's no need to add in a giant 15 million dollar B&M for every park if a 7 million Justice League ride works just as well." The only person who thinks the park needs a high speed, let alone a launched coaster is us. Most of the GP, and Six Flags, count V2 as a launch coaster. High Speed to them is Raging Bull and Goliath. Believe me, I want a Giga as much as the next person, but when it comes down to finances, Six Flags just wants to make the largest profit possible. If a cheap 4D Freespin can bring in more numbers than an expensive Giga, guess what ride Six Flags will start adding? Exactly.
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Postby Coaster Justin on December 14th, 2016, 2:04 pm
Guy_With_A_Stick wrote:It's us enthusiasts that complain about new additions(for the most part). Most of us think that The Joker is a lame clone that isn't anything special.


The only reason why I hate the Joker ride is that I've ridden Green Lantern at SFMM (And hated it) and from what I've heard from multiple sources, Jokers more intense.


That's my only problem with Joker. If it was a Giant Discovery like SFDK is getting or a Star Flyer, I'd love it more.
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Postby JaminOut on December 14th, 2016, 5:44 pm
Coaster Justin wrote:
Guy_With_A_Stick wrote:It's us enthusiasts that complain about new additions(for the most part). Most of us think that The Joker is a lame clone that isn't anything special.


The only reason why I hate the Joker ride is that I've ridden Green Lantern at SFMM (And hated it) and from what I've heard from multiple sources, Jokers more intense.


That's my only problem with Joker. If it was a Giant Discovery like SFDK is getting or a Star Flyer, I'd love it more.


The two are incomparable. It's all about the center of the centrifugal spin. With Joker, your center of gravity centralized. On Green Lantern, the center of centrifugal spin is behind you. This causes more pain and unnatural movements.
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Postby gottastrata33 on December 15th, 2016, 4:48 am
Like I've said in previous posts, everything we have has it's purpose/everything is here for a reason.

I do understand wanting something big again. As stated, you all know I want that giga too. But it's sadly much more unlikely than likely. However, I really don't think it's that impossible to get another major attraction that separates us from everyone else in the chain. It has happened with both XFlight & Goliath. I'm actually surprised CP brought the dive coaster back & it wasn't us. It was rumored for so long. That's about the only B&M we're really missing. It's a great simple coaster that eats up the crowds & is loved by the GP. Hell, ive liked every dive coaster I've been on & I would love one here.

Anyways - So it is possible. At some point I really think (& hope) we will be seeing a premier launch coaster & Starflyer. Both products will compliment our park well I think & are not bad rides.
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Postby staticshadows on December 16th, 2016, 2:50 pm
I still think Revolution will eventually be replaced by a Star Flyer. I would like to see V2 replaced by a Zamperla Giant Discovery and Whirligig replaced by a Zamperla Endeavour. I would move Whirligig by Hometown Park and reinstall Jester's Wild Ride over there too.
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Postby RollingCoasting on December 16th, 2016, 3:26 pm
That.. actually looks great! I don''t think that Whirligig needs to be moved though, the endeavour could easily just go in Hometown Square
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Postby Whizzer Whiz Kid on January 20th, 2017, 10:24 pm
I know this isn't a perfect example, but a B&M mega looper could totally fit in Bucky Battle and Winner Circle's spot. For example I used Batman The Dark Knight at SFNE.
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Postby RollingCoasting on January 20th, 2017, 10:55 pm
For the park's 45th anniversary in 2021, or 45th season in 2020, it'd be cool if we finally got a large looper/mega looper. (Keep in mind this is the WISH LIST thread)

I think a regular B&M Sit-down with maybe 8 or 9 inversions would do the trick. Perhaps with a launched lift hill like Incredible Hulk (B&M now does launched wing riders and has done one launched sit-down in the past, so...)

Give it the same color scheme as CGA's Patriot and call it Aftershock to pay tribute to Shockwave and you've got a solid coaster. It would also have to replace Superman and TDK

Wildfire.png

Here's a picture of Wildfire at SDC. Yes, it only has 5 inversions, but I'm just using it for reference.
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Postby SFGAM_Hog on January 29th, 2017, 6:39 pm
I wish every ride had great theming inside the queues. For example it'd be awesome to see Raging Bull with some nice Western-Spanish town looking theme.
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Postby Dan The Coaster Man on February 1st, 2017, 10:49 am
I would love another launch at the park, especially if V2 is to leave. Mack would be awesome, but even if we got something like vekoma's Formula One coaster (on a tad bigger scale), that would be cool.
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Postby Dan The Coaster Man on February 1st, 2017, 10:54 am
RollingCoasting wrote:
Wildfire.png

Here's a picture of Wildfire at SDC. Yes, it only has 5 inversions, but I'm just using it for reference.


I really enjoyed Wildfire. I have been on all the sitdowns in the US, and I have to say i would rather have a sitdown than a floorless. The revamped Hulk was a little rough to B&M's standards, but I liked it more than every floorless I've been on. Sit down > floorless.
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Postby Dan The Coaster Man on February 16th, 2017, 11:09 am
Sorry for triple post but I just thought of this. I went to Universal Orlando for the first time on New Years, and their system with the coca cola freestyles blew me away. I LOVED IT. If only more parks could use chips in the cups, then we could have freestyles laying everywhere and there wouldn't be any issues! When it is a hot day at SFGAm i probably get around 5 refills, waiting in line for each. At Universal, I probably got 10 without waiting in lines. Granted, I am not sure how much work goes into it, but I would love to see this at parks everywhere including SFGAm. The technology might be too much for Six Flags, but I could see CF picking up on it. It is truly ingenious. I wish this was at SFGAm or at least more machines in general.
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Postby AirTimeDaz on April 16th, 2017, 9:26 pm
Hey guys sorry to bump this post, but some years ago in this thread somewhere I stated that I would love at some point to see demon re-imagined as a full circuit launched coaster. I think this is close to along the lines of what I had in mind. Pretty sure we don't have the footprint for this, but maybe a smaller, more compact version would be cool while still keeping certain elements like a double loop, tunnel and the stonework that makes demon a sfgam icon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58jR0ZsDKbQ
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Postby Guy_With_A_Stick on April 17th, 2017, 12:16 am
^You do realize that's a Blue Fire clone, right? :P

By the way, the dimensions are 170m(558 feet) by 85m(279 feet).
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